King Yao's book -- Weighing the Odds in Hold em Poker (WOHEP)

[Greg J]

I'm stuck inside because of Katrina (I'm in Baton Rouge). So I thought I would write a few words about this book I just finished. I'm not going to offer a full review -- that would be pretentious and presumptuous. I just wanted to offer a few words about it instead.

In short, it's a wonderful book. I think it does a lot to complement SSHE, and should be the next book you get after you Miller et al. Is it as good as SSHE? In my humble opinion, it's awfully close. It lays out many of the concepts in SSHE and HEPFAP in a mathematical form, which I like as it helps me understand them on a deeper level. For example, even though Yao did not explicitly discuss reverse implied odds, his discussion of a hand that is ahead still having outs (even if it's like 40 or 35), helped me understand reverse implied odds on a deeper theoretical level. In short (and I might be about to commit blasphemy, and that's fine), this book is of a comparable caliber to SSHE.

This is like 2p2 books: it's a thinking person's guide to hold em. Is it good enough to be a 2p2 book? I may or may not be qualified to say this, but I will say it anyway: it's damn close. I do take some issues with the chapter on starting hands (Ch 12), as I think his recommendations are much too tight for most games. Other than that, I have no major complaints.

The focus of this book is a bit different that SSHE. While SSHE focuses on the betting and raising aspects of playing in looser games, WOHEP looks at when it is correct to play less aggressively, laying out why it is preferable in mathematical terms. (I wish SSHE did that more.) In a sense it balances out the message of proper aggression of SSHE with a message of proper passivity but laying out mathematically when it is correct to bet, raise, call and fold in certain situations. Good stuff.

I would love it if this book were somehow re-released by 2p2. A few issues would have to be addressed IMO: 1) The starting hands chapter needs a substantive overhaul. 2) There are several typos and some editing issues. 3) The cover looks too good. 2p2 books are supposed to be much uglier – they look like a 3rd grade class project. But in general, yeah this book is very close to 2p2 caliber.

The pot odds and implied odds chapters are great! He does not claim to reinvent the wheel here -- he gives proper dap to Sklansky throughout the book. He just explains these concepts by laying them out differently (more EV calculations and explicitly mathematical explanation, where Sklansky uses qualitative logic to the same effect). He discusses something called the DIPO method, which is an effective alternative to outs/odds calculation which some of you might like. (I am thinking of trying it out.)

The shorthanded chapters are also nice. As far as I know this is the first book that deals with shorthanded games this extensively. Sklansky, of course, discusses it, but that was before 6 max and 5 max internet games. I think SH poker certainly deserves a good book of it’s own, but this is certainly a good start.

Long story short: It's good. It will improve yr game. Get it!

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to offer a full review -- that would be pretentious and presumptuous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I, for one, would not find a full review from you pretentious or presumptuous, and I'd like to read that review.

My copy has just arrived, along with a pile of other books poker and non, and I'll start reading soon.

Thanks for the mini-review.

[Fantam]

This is one of my favourite poker books. I put it on a par with both SSHE and HEFAP. However far better than my recommendation, I noticed that Ed Miller said he thought that this book was excellent some time ago in the book review section of this forum.

In defence of King Yao's tight starting hand suggestions, I noticed that he was assuming that there were a number of good players at the table in addition to a few poor players. He also did say that you should play more drawing hands in early position at a table with more passive players.

I also enjoyed reading the advice for short-handed play, as you pointed out that there is not that much, which has been written about this format of play.

I am glad that you are recommending this book to other players, and I am sure that most people who read it wont be dissappointed! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Nfinity]

Ed Miller said almost exactly the same thing over in the Books/ Publications Forum. It's on it's way to me as we speak(just ordered it this second) Thanks for the backup review.

[RatFink]

I'm a big fan of the book as a complement to SSHE.

On the starting hand guides, one thing he does that other books seem to miss is adding some situational context to the hands played. So not only is position addressed, but the actions of previous players. While it may be too tight, the added benefit of getting players thinking about who else is in the pot and how they came in is an important concept that is overlooked in most texts.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
Ed Miller said almost exactly the same thing over in the Books/ Publications Forum.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is reassuring. Got a link?

[SlantNGo]

I just ran a search for it... http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...t=all&vc=1

[Catt]

King Yao's book is excellent.

I just finished WOHEP and thought it was great in helping my understanding of some of the math behind Hold Em. I had a question about the DIPO method for anyone who's used it, is it worth the extra calculations? Does it work better than standard odds calculation? (IE that taught in TOP and SSHE).

[Catt]

DIPO is simply another way to estimate whether you have correct odds to call -- it conflates implied odds into the initial calculation (you use estimated pot size on the front end) and avoids the division calculations associated with the more "traditional" method for counting outs / determining whether to call. It might be great for players who have trouble with the math of the traditional model -- I am pretty comfortable with the traditional method and so didn't (and won't) adopt or play around with DIPO.