How small a one card flush can I draw to?

Stealthy · #1 12-16-2005, 02:13 PM

Reads not important. Just the normal mix of LAGs and calling stations.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP calls, CO folds, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

I thought the CAP was easy given the amount of bad hands already in and my good position over the 3 bettor.

Flop: (18 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero?

Well the pot is big but I could be drawing dead, is this an easy fold or an easy continue? How far can I take this hand if I carry on? How much does the decision change if the Queen [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is replaced by a different [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I am not keen on spiking an Ace given the action so far but I may be committed to a showdown if an Ace or my flush comes in.

This was my first foray into $3 $6 6 Max and my first time playing these stakes.

Thoughts?

bnorthro · #2 12-16-2005, 02:19 PM

I think you can draw to this flush. The pot's pretty darn big, and you're closing the action. J is still pretty high, there's only 2 overs now that the Q is out.... Interested to see what others think.

#3 12-16-2005, 02:29 PM

I guess UTG and MP could just be peeling with any two since the pot is big but I think you should fold the turn if they both call again.

toss · #4 12-16-2005, 02:29 PM

I don't think this cap preflop is as easy as you're making it out to be. Your hand doesn't play well 4 way and its not always a favorite against hands that they'll call with here. I also don't like it unless SB is some kind of LAG.

On the flop you're drawing to the third nut flush and any pair outs you may or may not have. I folding here never getting 21:1 on my call closing the action.

Stealthy · #5 12-16-2005, 02:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this cap preflop is as easy as you're making it out to be. Your hand doesn't play well 4 way and its not always a favorite against hands that they'll call with here. I also don't like it unless SB is some kind of LAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice reply. It shows just how little I understand about SH play and poker hand stregth in general. In a full game I only CAP here with AK and AQs (apart from the usual big pairs) and maybe should have followed that line SH.

toss · #6 12-16-2005, 02:42 PM

If your hand was AJs I'd like you're cap a lot better.

POKhER · #7 12-16-2005, 02:48 PM

Dont cap mate for a reasons(not in a particular order):
1, you bloat the pot making hand protection if you spike a Jack a nightmare(they have called anyhow, they wont fold..).

2, Its multiway and AJ kind of sucks
3, He 3bet which kind of narrows his range down a bit of course he may have ATs to AKs but you won't know for a while anyhow.

Your position is the only positive and HU or 3way sure.. but with all these callers don't IMO not to forget you've given us no read on his Preflop raising range so....(I assume you took this into consideration when capping?)

You wont get A/K spade to fold so its a bloddy tough decision.

I think i'll peel and see what the turn brings, If a spade hits and things kick off we can probably ditch it. If we miss the turn some players may fold and we can see who we're up against(improved winning chances).

Spiking an ACE may still be good of course...

Stealthy · #8 12-16-2005, 02:58 PM

OK stopped being lazy. SB is 19/15/2 and I made a big blunder in capping! I capped for the other 2 in, not SBs hand which I figured had me dominated. Just bad thinking on my part.

Turn + river

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP calls, CO folds, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (18 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG folds, MP calls, Hero calls.

River: (14 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, MP calls, Hero calls

ejay · #9 12-16-2005, 03:29 PM

I dont really like your play here after the flop. If this was heads up I would call and draw to the flush but with three other players i think that at least one has a higher spade and even if you catch an ace and no spade comes you still may not have the best hand.

jively · #10 12-16-2005, 04:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well the pot is big but I could be drawing dead, is this an easy fold or an easy continue? How far can I take this hand if I carry on? How much does the decision change if the Queen [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is replaced by a different [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I am not keen on spiking an Ace given the action so far but I may be committed to a showdown if an Ace or my flush comes in.

[/ QUOTE ]
You could be drawing dead, but not likely (I think only AT[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], KT[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], otherwise you can make a straight flush [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ).

I think I would at least call the flop and turn with this draw. With 2 other callers I'm tempted to raise the flop for value.

With a lower spade, I'm not sure how low I would call... With this large pot, even with the 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I may call down, unless it is bet and raised.

-Tom