This is not a good way to play an overpair, right?

[jsnipes28]

Villain in this hand is same villain from hand i just posted where he smooth-called flop with quads, checked behind on turn and made a very small value bet on river.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($145.02)
BB ($127.35)
Hero ($98.50)
MP ($102.85)
CO ($78.38)
Button ($122.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
[color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $5</font>, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>, Button calls $5, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($11.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $8</font>, [color=#CC3333]Button raises to $16</font>, Hero calls $8.

Turn: ($43.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
Hero checks, [color=#CC3333]Button bets $20</font>, Hero raises all-in $77.5. Button calls $57.50.

River: ($121) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $171

Results in white below: [color=#FFFFFF]
Hero has Qs Qd (one pair, queens).
Button has Kd Jd (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins $121. </font>

[mikeyworm]

It's an OK line. I would probably lead the turn for about 3/4 pot and fold to a push but your line got all his chips so it looks good.

[amoeba]

I don't see the problem as with a big hand he'll likely slowplay it.

[topbrelan]

Based on the other hand you described, he wouldn't fastplay a monster so why not value bet the crap out of him? If he smoothcalled my flop and turn bet I might be worried, but not here...

[beavens]

i probably wouldve 3bet the flop, but that's just me.

[4_2_it]

3-bet that flop (another $40-$50). The only hands that scare you are JJ, 77 or 33 (I discount AA and KK because most will re-raise pre-flop). Most villains like to 'slowplay' their sets so I think a set hits you with the dreaded turn raise. If you get a flop push, then you can fold as I think your overpair is no good.

FYI - Don't post results in your original post. You should have stopped the action after villain makes the $20 turn bet. You will get better responses that way.

[jsnipes28]

thanks for the advice 4_2. The "results in white" fooled me because i thought they were actually in white. will do from now on.

As for three-betting the flop. I don't see how that is advantageous because it screams overpair to him so he will fold hands that are beat and call with hands that are ahead most of the time. Checking the turn could be a variety of hands that players will call a minraise with here like TT, AK, AQ, and other random holdings. He is obligated to bet the turn, which can nearly pot commit him when i raise from there. I see where betting out on the turn could be good. i just think that 3 betting the flop, with the plan on folding to a push when you have invested half your stack, isn't the most EV because it allows the villain to get away from marginal holdings like KJ easier than a turn check/raise or bet will.
I would be really interested in hearing why a 3bet on dry flop board would be good. I need this kind of advice because ive been running bad and im trying to figure it out.

[beavens]

would you categorize the villian as someone who has a hard time getting off a hand? because they way he's betting it doesn't seem like he is going to fold.

so i think he'll call a 3bet and then you can lead the turn with a 2/3 or PSB which he'll probably either call or push

[4_2_it]

I see nothing wrong with a 3-bet here. You will save half your stack if villain has a set. All you accomplish by calling is allow villain a free chance to catch-up and beat you. No board is dry enough with QQ, which is a vulnerable hand. I would be happy to take the pot on a flop 3-bet.

Even if I just call the flop, no way can you check the turn and give villain a potential free card. Think what hand does villain have that folds to your flop 3-bet, but calls you turn bet? I'll give a hint: WA/WB.

You have QQ OOP which is a good, but not great hand. Play it fast. It worked here which is good, but I think it is good that you get feedback from winning hands.

I often find that I learn more from mistakes (too harsh a word for this example) I make and still win, then from hands I lose and can point to an obvious error.

[rikz]

The turn play in this hand just seems wrong. Without the read on villain having played a monster so much differently, the ole "min-raise" the preflop raiser is often an attempt with any pair to snap off a continuation bet (he's putting you on AK, of course), or a set (he's putting you on an overpair and hoping you get pot committed by calling or re-raising his min-raise). So, just calling his min-raise and then check-raising him all-in on the turn just seems strange. A semi-decent villain with only one pair of jacks or lower would give you credit for an overpair or a set of Jacks and fold at that point. And unless he picked up a backdoor flush draw, the board is still pretty drawless for you to worry too much about somebody "calling" to catch something. I think you're either way ahead or way behind on the flop, and you need to find out which without getting stacked.

Therefore, without a read (which you have in this case):

I think three-betting the flop and folding to a push is good.

I also think calling the flop min-raise is OK if you bet 1/2 pot on the turn and fold to a push.

I think check-raising all-in on the turn is not so good. Really, if villain was not married to TPWK (as he turned out to be) you'd have lost to anybody else that would have called your big check raise.