Craps - Page 5

bpb · #41 11-10-2005, 12:56 AM

Can someone answer this question with a concise reply.

If dice setting is complete [censored], then why does Stanford Wong think it's possible?

snoopdarr · #42 11-13-2005, 11:47 PM

Controlled throwing is absloutely possible and theoretically it's trivial to prove that you can gain an edge if you decrease the frequency of occurance of the number seven. These internet geeks with their fingers twisted around their mice could never do it, but a normal person with good hand eye coordination can do it. If you never saw someone throw a curveball, you wouldn't believe it is possible would you?

Jimbo · #43 11-20-2005, 02:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Controlled throwing is absloutely possible and theoretically it's trivial to prove that you can gain an edge if you decrease the frequency of occurance of the number seven. These internet geeks with their fingers twisted around their mice could never do it, but a normal person with good hand eye coordination can do it. If you never saw someone throw a curveball, you wouldn't believe it is possible would you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Allow me, Controlled throwing is absloutely impossible, until someone can build a machine that can accomplish this (and they haven't) why would you believe a human can do it?

All people who belive it can be done fall into one of two groups.

1) They want you to pay them to teach you how.
2) Some guy got on a 20 minute lucky roll and told someones brothers friends secretary he uses controlled throwing and this group of people believe the story.

Group two has no grasp of statistics and also believe they have been anally probed by aliens.

Jimbo

Double Down · #44 11-20-2005, 03:56 AM

"Allow me, Controlled throwing is absloutely impossible, until someone can build a machine that can accomplish this (and they haven't) why would you believe a human can do it?

All people who belive it can be done fall into one of two groups.

1) They want you to pay them to teach you how.
2) Some guy got on a 20 minute lucky roll and told someones brothers friends secretary he uses controlled throwing and this group of people believe the story.

Group two has no grasp of statistics and also believe they have been anally probed by aliens.

Jimbo "

I belong to neither group but am a firm believer in precision shooting. You have absolutely nothing to back up your opinion other than that precision shooting to you doesn't seem like it should be possible. Well, it is.
Do some research on it.
Please do not post an opinion unless it is based on something. Anything.

Jimbo · #45 11-20-2005, 11:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do some research on it.
Please do not post an opinion unless it is based on something. Anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you dense or just recently had an anal probe? I did base my statements on facts.

Fact 1) No machine as I described above has been built (dispute that)

Fact 2) Any type of research (as you call it) will be unable to be replicated.

Fact 3) It is up to those who say it is being done prove to something can be done not for me or others to prove a negative or disprove your hypothesis.

If an experiment cannot be duplicated or verified by unbiased observers (over a long enough number of trials to be statistically significant) in a casino (the only place where it really matters) it is obviously not possible. Also if a machine which could conceivably throw perfectly cannot successfully control a dice throw using casino rules why do you think a human could do so? Any results indicating that controlled shooting is possible can be simply explained by using the rule of large numbers. Read it, study it, embrace it as your mantra.

Jimbo

tylerdurden · #46 11-21-2005, 10:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fact 1) No machine as I described above has been built (dispute that)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what this proves. I don't know of any machine that turns hotdogs into poo poo but my two-year-old son does it all the time.

Jimbo · #47 11-23-2005, 12:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fact 1) No machine as I described above has been built (dispute that)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what this proves. I don't know of any machine that turns hotdogs into poo poo but my two-year-old son does it all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arkansas huh? I understand....

tylerdurden · #48 11-23-2005, 03:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fact 1) No machine as I described above has been built (dispute that)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what this proves. I don't know of any machine that turns hotdogs into poo poo but my two-year-old son does it all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arkansas huh? I understand....

[/ QUOTE ]

You understand what?

The fact that a machine that does task XYZ does not exist does not prove that XYZ is impossible, and doesn't even prove that such a machine could not be built at some point in the future.

Until recently, there was no machine that could beat Gary Kasparov at chess. Was that task impossible? Now that a machine has done it, has it suddenly become possible?

When Michaelangelo carved David, there was no machine that could accomplish such a feat. Can we then assume that carving the David was an impossible task, in spite of the existence of it? How then did it come about?

So again, I ask you, what does the fact that no dice setting machine exists actually prove, other than nobody has yet built one?

Double Down · #49 11-23-2005, 04:54 AM

"Given that setting dice (as advertised) is such a highly personalized skill, I'm not sure that simply recording sessions would resolve anything. If the shooter can't do it today -- it's possible that he could yesterday. If the shooter can't do it ever -- that doesn't mean someone else can't. What I would like to see is slow-motion video of the dice behaving as predicted, and compare it to video of random throws. If there was a significant correllation between the prediction and the recorded behavior of the dice, and the recorded patterns (bounce, spin, etc.) deviated from the random patterns -- I'd be a believer. "

See, now THIS I respect. That is a fair thing to want to see. I do not have the videos, but apparently Sharpshooter, who wrote Get the Edge at Craps, does have lots of footage of his precision shooting. Of course, he could be lying, but he does claim this. Not sure if someone could get footage of it, probably not. He also claims to have recorded thousands and thousands of rolls, and goes on to say that his results fall to the right of 3 standard deviations. Again, he could be lying, but if not, then evidence does exist.

I personally only have my experience to go by. I took a weekend seminar and watched players and myself drastically improve our results. Not just one of us, but all of us. Now, if it is purely randomness, then it would be an incredible coincidence that ALL of our results were drastically improving as we practiced this technique more and more.

As far as the whole machine thing, I'm not sure what this is in reference to. Are there people trying to build a machine that precision shoots dice? If so, I haven't heard about this. It doesn't even make sense. Why would someone build a machine? They wouldn't be able to bring it into a casino. Someone fill me in.

Frankly, I'm done with this topic. I will end it the same way I ended it a month ago before this moron (not you, Sheetwise) started it up again. If you would like more info, then PM me.
Peace out

tylerdurden · #50 11-23-2005, 09:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why would someone build a machine? They wouldn't be able to bring it into a casino. Someone fill me in.

[/ QUOTE ]

An excellent point. Just to clarify, I don't really have an opinion either way on whether anyone can actually control the dice like this, I just don't see any relevance in the fact that nobody has bothered to build the DiceBot3000.