Is checking out "unethical"?

[scrapperdog]

Am I the only one that thinks it is a disgrace that a poker room would expect the people at the table who came to have a good time to enforce unwritten rules... write the rule down and have the dealer enforce it if a room thinks this is a problem. I see this is a rule at some rooms but if it not a rule people should feel free to do it.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

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I will go a step further: If you are playing in my game and you are the first to act on the river, PLEASE check out. If I am still in the hand, it is far more preferrable to be facing one less adversary when it is my turn to act. Indeed, if you don't check out you are likely the guy that is going to make it clear he is going to fold anyway. So just do it.

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This is wrong on so many levels... let's look at an example.

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Yes -- people have provided examples of when a check out can hurt you -- and there are times I would be upset by a check out. But those situations are in the minority. The majority of the time, I would rather know that I don't have to worry about a third player (and more importantly, a fouth or fifth) in the hand. Call me simple, but in most situations, it is easier for me deal with a single opponent.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

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Am I the only one that thinks it is a disgrace that a poker room would expect the people at the table who came to have a good time to enforce unwritten rules... write the rule down and have the dealer enforce it if a room thinks this is a problem. I see this is a rule at some rooms but if it not a rule people should feel free to do it.

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This will be my last comment on the subject, because I agree with scrapperdog 100%. If a room wants to make checking out illegal/inappropiate/improper/unethical -- whatever you want to call it -- it should be clearly stated in their rules. I am fine with that. The fact that I have never seen a written rule making checking out "wrong", I stand by my opinion that it is an appropriate action (in turn).

Also, since hands can be killed in so many ways -- purposely and accidently -- it must also be made clear that repeated improper kills (of any kind) will be penalized...

By the way, short of kicking him out, how do you penalize a player in a cash game where they have already relinquished their right to the pot in question?

[Randy_Refeld]

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By the way, short of kicking him out, how do you penalize a player in a cash game where they have already relinquished their right to the pot in question?

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This is why this behaivior is tolerated; nobody wants to see the sort of player that does this go.

AS far as a written rule saying it isn't ok:

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The following actions are improper, and grounds for warning, suspending, or barring a violator:

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or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play,

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In general written rules are incomplete as the nature of poker is such that people write done rules taht tell how the game is played rather than writing rules and teaching players to play in the manner required.

[snoopdarr]

For what it's worth, i've never ever seen someone check out in a NL or middle limit game. I doubt it would happen, as these players will take any shot to get a pot. Anyone who's played for any amount of time has seen very silly ten high or bottom pair hands win on the river in a showdown.

The common situation is in a low limit game, 8 people see the flop, and one of the blinds throws his hand in so he can get a drink/go to the bathroom/etc, or when everyone's checking to the preflop raiser who will bet 100% of the time. I don't think anyone can find anything wrong with this practice.

[Randy_Refeld]

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For what it's worth, i've never ever seen someone check out in a NL or middle limit game. I doubt it would happen, as these players will take any shot to get a pot. Anyone who's played for any amount of time has seen very silly ten high or bottom pair hands win on the river in a showdown.

The common situation is in a low limit game, 8 people see the flop, and one of the blinds throws his hand in so he can get a drink/go to the bathroom/etc, or when everyone's checking to the preflop raiser who will bet 100% of the time. I don't think anyone can find anything wrong with this practice.

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This is all correct, that is why it just happens. I have seen players check out in bigger games, but it is very rare. I have only been called on to rule on it once; I explained to the player that throwing away your hand when not facing a bet was not an option; he apologized to teh table adn that was the end of that.

[Riddle]

I have read this thread and it astounds me that so many new players act like grade school children "It isn't against the rules".

Cutting in line, farting in the car on a first date, trying to seduce another man's wife or girlfriend etc. All these things there is no "law" or rule against. These are all examples of behavior that not many people will tolerate and reaction you may recieve will vary greatly depending on the offended person.

The point, keep hiding behind technicalities about proper manners and sooner or later someone will give you a crash course in manners that you won't forget.

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For what it's worth, i've never ever seen someone check out in a NL or middle limit game.

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I see it ahppen all the time in NL.

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The common situation is in a low limit game, 8 people see the flop, and one of the blinds throws his hand in so he can get a drink/go to the bathroom/etc,

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I see it frequently from players who are not getting up. They usually do it with a sneer of disgust when they dobn't like the flop.

when everyone's checking to the preflop raiser who will bet 100% of the time.

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when everyone's checking to the preflop raiser who will bet 100% of the time.

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Except that in Low Limit holdem the preflop raiser does not bet 100% of the time

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I don't think anyone can find anything wrong with this practice.

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Look through this thrad and you will see that many of us do find something wrong with this practice.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

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I have read this thread and it astounds me that so many new players act like grade school children "It isn't against the rules".

Cutting in line, farting in the car on a first date, trying to seduce another man's wife or girlfriend etc. All these things there is no "law" or rule against. These are all examples of behavior that not many people will tolerate and reaction you may recieve will vary greatly depending on the offended person.

The point, keep hiding behind technicalities about proper manners and sooner or later someone will give you a crash course in manners that you won't forget.

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LOL... calling other people grade school children and then talk about farting... You decide to come in here as a newbie and call people names while adding nothing to the conversation. Checking out has nothing in common with cutting the line, farting on a date or seducing another man's woman -- but don't let simple logic stop you from being an arse.

Maybe you should return to lurking -- you do that much better.

[Mackie]

IMHO head's up it's fine, but in a multiway pot you should wait until it is checked around then muck. If I was worried about a "want to see that hand" request I'd try to muck with some force to make my hand irretrievable.