Dealers mouth!

[willthethrill]

Rarely does everything go the way you want in poker. Sometimes you just have to roll with the punches. Use it to your advantage. He'll think that your trying to boss him around now, he'll call more of your bets. Just let it go and move to the next hand.

[Hofzinser]

Take the deck from the "dealer", inform him his services are no longer required and that if he ever does that to you again he will be under direct threat of violence.

Alternatively, you could NOT do this and thus avoid looking like a macho prick who deserves a good kicking.

[smoore]

macho is as macho does

[Lottery Larry]

That's not softplaying, that's not taking advantage of a new player.

You need a different attitude if you're going to play in a lot of different home games.

[smoore]

No, I need a different attitude if I'm going to play in a "training ground" as you espouse. I play pokah.

[smoore]

I just read this whole thread again. This is a good division of who is playing poker and who is trying to have fun.

Yes, I see the point of "shearing a sheep many times" and all but really... there are enough sheep these days that we can afford to accidentaly skin one occasionally. Combine this with the fact that it's heads up in a tournament with (one would assume) a much higher payout for first and I'll take the chance that I skin him.

Besides... if OP takes that pot WITHOUT THE FISH KNOWING WHAT HAPPENED then HE NEVER KNOWS! The "dealer" screwed it up for our hero here, no bout adoubt it.

I especially appreciate the opinions of the other actual poker players that have bothered to post in this thread, you guys know how to play, even at home games. Some of the posts here flip-flop and state they would tell the player about the situation in one breath, then turn around and claim this is a +EV move. Remember, he would never even know had everyone kept thier mouth shut. HE DOESN'T KNOW... LETS KEEP IT THAT WAY. You cannot on one hand educate the fish and on the other make the same money from them.

The people that state, "What is done is done." are completely correct. There is no way to make this fool take his words back and the damage is done. However, the posters that oppose my stance of removing this "dealer" from his "post" and critisize me for standing up for myself in situations like this need to think about it. At what point DO you stand up? Is it when the loudmouth points out that it's only T100 to call a T10k pot when you really, really, REALLY want the opponent to fold? Taking exception to my attitude of, "Lets go roll around in the parking lot for awhile!" can be attributed to a soft upbringing or a general passivity and I can accept that, but really, when is enough enough?

When it comes to starting and maintaining a home game, I would wager that VA and I have both done this succesfully. We show the fish respect by NOT softplaying them, we tear them a new one if the situation warrants it. Should they want to discuss the situation away from the table, THAT'S the time to educate. I've actually turned a couple of complete fish into decent to good players like this. No reasonable adult likes to be coddled when it comes to gambling, they want you to play as hard as you can against them. Hell, some people even come to my game just to get a taste of my kung-fu, they have told me this directly. (VA, if you take exception to this, feel free to countermand it in a reply.)

Anyone who agrees with me probably made it all the way through this post shouting, "Preach it, brotha!"... you guys know who you are. Any detractors that made it this far, I welcome coherent discussion in this or another thread. As for as the "macho" comment guy... duh. I'm a successful male poker player, of COURSE I'm macho. Even the physically slightest and least intimidating "top pro" I can think of, Daniel N. is more "macho" than quite a few of my construction worker peers.

Thank you, thank you... I'll be here all week.

[varoadstter]

[ QUOTE ]
When it comes to starting and maintaining a home game, I would wager that VA and I have both done this succesfully. We show the fish respect by NOT softplaying them, we tear them a new one if the situation warrants it. Should they want to discuss the situation away from the table, THAT'S the time to educate. I've actually turned a couple of complete fish into decent to good players like this. No reasonable adult likes to be coddled when it comes to gambling, they want you to play as hard as you can against them. Hell, some people even come to my game just to get a taste of my kung-fu, they have told me this directly. (VA, if you take exception to this, feel free to countermand it in a reply.)

[/ QUOTE ]

No objections here. I actually was going to reply to this earlier but decided to just blow it off.

I would actually contend that I am the one acting honorably here by playing my "best game". What is the honor in allowing someone to think they are playing well only to bleed them dry over time? How is it better to treat a guy who can be expected to play by the same rules as everyone else differently? How is this person going to learn that mistakes have consequences? If he loses a tournament due to playing like a bonehead then he's prepared to not do it again. I am certainly going to let them know that they did something wrong afterwards.

This is not an angle. No rule, intent, or whatever was broken, bent, or sidestepped.

Sheesh.

Preach on, smoore!

[smoore]

Hey mods... can I have the title of:

Thread-Killer

?

It's not just this one, I seem to kill quite a few... see: busterstacks... I killed the holy crap out of that thread.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
No, I need a different attitude if I'm going to play in a "training ground" as you espouse. I play pokah.
-------
Concede half the pot, no problem. Take the deck from the "dealer", inform him his services are no longer required and that if he ever does that to you again he will be under direct threat of violence.

Fooling fools is part of poker. He's a dick, violating both the spirit and the letter of "One head to a hand".

edit: did the "dealer" have any financial interest in your opponent beating you?
----------
I just read this whole thread again. This is a good division of who is playing poker and who is trying to have fun.

[/ QUOTE ]
In a home game, I don't think these should be separated, ESPECIALLY by more experienced players. As in, you should make some small sacrifices in MOST "home games" to insure that others are having fun, if that is one of their primary motivations for playing.

Unless you are in a home game that is overwhelmingly populated by serious-poker-play-only participants, the goals of a "home game" shouldn't just be the poker rules. Therefore, you don't go all draconian with responses to what most likely are innocent/unplanned mistakes. That is the problem I have with your "kill the dealer" diatribe above.

Take the opportunity to train the people involved- they, the game, AND you will be better served. It doesn't have to be immediately, but to get all hissy about it doesn't make sense either


[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I see the point of "shearing a sheep many times" and all but really... there are enough sheep these days that we can afford to accidentaly skin one occasionally. Combine this with the fact that it's heads up in a tournament with (one would assume) a much higher payout for first and I'll take the chance that I skin him.

Besides... if OP takes that pot WITHOUT THE FISH KNOWING WHAT HAPPENED then HE NEVER KNOWS! The "dealer" screwed it up for our hero here, no bout adoubt it.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I have also said, the dealer made a mistake; betting into the shared board wasn't a mistake, but going overboard in reacting to losing half of the pot WAS a mistake IMHO.

[ QUOTE ]
I especially appreciate the opinions of the other actual poker players that have bothered to post in this thread, you guys know how to play, even at home games. Some of the posts here flip-flop and state they would tell the player about the situation in one breath, then turn around and claim this is a +EV move.

[/ QUOTE ]

jafager was talking about overall +EV, not just this one tournament situation (he missed the fact that it was a tournament; he told me that he falls more in line with "bet and try to take the other half" group with that understanding)
I guess we're not "actual" poker players to you.

[ QUOTE ]
Remember, he would never even know had everyone kept thier mouth shut. HE DOESN'T KNOW... LETS KEEP IT THAT WAY. You cannot on one hand educate the fish and on the other make the same money from them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not the SAME money, but you make more money if weaker players stay around longer to play, even if your edge is slightly less. Don't go overboard with your "REAL poker for REAL men" huffing and puffing.

[ QUOTE ]
Taking exception to my attitude of, "Lets go roll around in the parking lot for awhile!" can be attributed to a soft upbringing or a general passivity and I can accept that, but really, when is enough enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

Going completely overboard because you obviously had an abusive childhood isn't the answer either (as long as the "sweeping generalizations" light is still on...)

[ QUOTE ]
When it comes to starting and maintaining a home game, I would wager that VA and I have both done this succesfully. We show the fish respect by NOT softplaying them, we tear them a new one if the situation warrants it. Should they want to discuss the situation away from the table, THAT'S the time to educate. I've actually turned a couple of complete fish into decent to good players like this. No reasonable adult likes to be coddled when it comes to gambling, they want you to play as hard as you can against them. Hell, some people even come to my game just to get a taste of my kung-fu, they have told me this directly. (VA, if you take exception to this, feel free to countermand it in a reply.)

[/ QUOTE ]

That's one take on the way to go. There are others equally valid when dealing with new players.

Your turn! :P

[smoore]

What in the holy [censored] are you talking about, lotto?

I said "direct threat of violence", who says he'll die? I suppose it's possible to die from getting punched but not very likely. How is saying, "Give me the deck, we don't need your kind of help. If you do that again I'll kick your ass." going overboard? Going overboard would involve berating him or throwing something or generally having a tantrum. The OP mentioned "screaming" when he was called... I wasn't there but I imagine it was a <anime> "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" </anime> instead of a "YOU DICK!" I guess he will have to tell us.

The guy who missed the fact it was HU in a tournament should have read a little more carefully.

I am not "huffing and puffing" or posturing in any way. I give no quarter while playing cards, nor do I apologise for that fact. I disagree with people saying, "Take it easy on the poor fish." I would be embarrased if someone did that to me.