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  #1  
Old 12-09-2005, 07:46 PM
ANY2CARDZ ANY2CARDZ is offline
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Default mid pair against flop raise,

Im trying to learn 6 max, this is very frustrating I know the play is horrible, but I cant seem to come out on top, ive only played 3500 hands, but im down (2bb)/100 hands, and I feel very lost.
This is one of those situations where in a full game I could this up in an instant, but here im not sure what the correct play is? I wanted to fold when he raised the flop, but figured I should get to show down.. What Do you do in this situation or similar situations? Thanks

Anyways villian is 40/10/2 over 50 hands.
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2005, 08:01 PM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Default Re: mid pair against flop raise,

40/10/2 is not enough to tell you what exactly to do here really. if i have to make a default line that i think is best it's peeling the flop and folding the turn.

with more info, a call down could be correct. with even more specific info, a turn check/call and river check/fold could be correct (if he will continue bluffing flush draws or non ace hands on the turn but will give up on the river).
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  #3  
Old 12-09-2005, 08:08 PM
ANY2CARDZ ANY2CARDZ is offline
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Default Re: mid pair against flop raise,

What other info would be useful/what should I be looking for? Is there any specific stats you would suggest looking at before making the decision when looking at PA HUD?
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  #4  
Old 12-09-2005, 08:10 PM
Stinkybeaver Stinkybeaver is offline
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Default Re: mid pair against flop raise,

You'll see a flushdraw raise this often enough to merit a calldown also you have a few outs left. It's close though but I go to SD quite often here.
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2005, 08:19 PM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Default Re: mid pair against flop raise,

[ QUOTE ]
What other info would be useful/what should I be looking for? Is there any specific stats you would suggest looking at before making the decision when looking at PA HUD?

[/ QUOTE ]
it's nothing you can know from stats - it's about certain plays you've seen him make. ie. have you seen him raise a very weak hand against a preflop raiser with an ace on board? (like 55 on AT3) if so, did he continue bluffing the whole way? will he raise A2 on AT3 vs. a preflop raiser? will he bet the river with it? have you seen him bet every street with a flush draw that did not hit?

i'd rather know any one of these things than that he's 40/10/2, but if that's all you have, that's all you have.
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  #6  
Old 12-09-2005, 09:32 PM
POKhER POKhER is offline
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Default Re: mid pair against flop raise,

Without reads:
Peel the flop, Fold the turn.


If he plays FD aggressive ill C/C all the way down and bet river(Not calling a raise unless tricky).

If he only bets TP or better fold the turn. If he bets middle pair or even bottom pair HU then Call down.

Whats his WTSD/W$SD numbers? Ah 50hands no point then.
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2005, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: mid pair against flop raise,

Grunch:

I think the flop call is OK, but the turn is a fold. If you had a J on a KJx board with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s, then I might call down, but an A is a very likely holding, making the heart draw less likely. And only 2+2-ers play a heart draw like this. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 12-10-2005, 03:08 AM
StellarWind StellarWind is offline
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Default Re: mid pair against flop raise,

This situation is both common and difficult. Reasonable arguments can be made for both calling down and folding the turn. You don't want to be always folding or always paying off, so you need to look at the little things that are unique to a particular hand and give you a better or worse chance.

1. Why would someone mess with a PFR with an AK on the flop? Shouldn't that discourage bluffing most of the time?

2. It's a flush draw--not! Look at the hearts on display: AKJ. This guy coldcalled preflop and now he has a flush draw? What cards does he have in his hand? It's possible he has the flush draw but the odds are dramatically lower than normal because he either has a completely ridiculous coldcall or one of a very small number of starting hands that have two pretty big hearts.

3. The turn nine is a poor card. There is a very good chance 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is in his hypothetical flush draw and that means he just picked up five new outs. You have great potential to be "right" and lose anyway when he scores on the river.

So I would fold the turn this time.
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  #9  
Old 12-10-2005, 03:13 AM
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Default Re: mid pair against flop raise,

I fold the turn UI. Villain coldcalls your preflop raise. Then raises your flop bet with an ace on the board. He might be bluffing a small portion of the time, but not enough to call down.
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  #10  
Old 12-10-2005, 07:06 AM
spydog spydog is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 7
Default Re: mid pair against flop raise,

[ QUOTE ]
This situation is both common and difficult. Reasonable arguments can be made for both calling down and folding the turn. You don't want to be always folding or always paying off, so you need to look at the little things that are unique to a particular hand and give you a better or worse chance.

1. Why would someone mess with a PFR with an AK on the flop? Shouldn't that discourage bluffing most of the time?

2. It's a flush draw--not! Look at the hearts on display: AKJ. This guy coldcalled preflop and now he has a flush draw? What cards does he have in his hand? It's possible he has the flush draw but the odds are dramatically lower than normal because he either has a completely ridiculous coldcall or one of a very small number of starting hands that have two pretty big hearts.

3. The turn nine is a poor card. There is a very good chance 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is in his hypothetical flush draw and that means he just picked up five new outs. You have great potential to be "right" and lose anyway when he scores on the river.

So I would fold the turn this time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Handing out gold for free. You gotta love Stellar.
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