Free Card Plays

Riposte · #1 08-16-2004, 08:50 PM

What is the general consensus here on free card plays? Should we be trying for free cards very often in online games? An example below from today...

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.05.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks.

River: (8 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB
Main Pot: 17 BB, between SB, Hero and UTG+1.

h_ven · #2 08-16-2004, 08:55 PM

Yes, I like the check on the turn.

I like to make that play in limit, and I almost play it like Doyle in NL in some games.

I wouldn't have played it differently, but I would like to know what some other experienced players would say about this play.

cartoonsoldier · #3 08-16-2004, 08:56 PM

Is there a possibility that you might have the best hand on the turn?

I would have bet it

Sent · #4 08-16-2004, 08:59 PM

Hard to make that raise, you don't want everyone to fold behind you and you don't know if people will still check the turn after you show weakness there.

-Sent

Riposte · #5 08-16-2004, 09:09 PM

You mean my raise on the flop, right? The pot is large, why wouldn't I want people to fold? Have you read SSH? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Also, if someone bet after me on the turn, a call would be fine, so it wouldn't have mattered much (although I may have had the best hand at that point with middle pair top kicker).

MrG · #6 08-16-2004, 09:43 PM

I would only raise the flop if I knew everyone would call. I would go for the overcall here and keep people in. But your reference to SSH and large pots is a good point, your raise forces everyone behind you to cold-call.

However, your turn check doesn't protect your hand as much as your flop raise. You need to bet here for the same reason you raised the flop: THE POT IS BIG!
In fact, it is much bigger than it was on the flop. While the six isn't a heart, pairing your six gives you more outs and is a scare card as it makes a st8 possible. I would think a bet here would do more to protect your hand than the flop raise.

TBone · #7 08-16-2004, 09:46 PM

If everyone folds, I'm happy! I don't even have a hand yet.

If everyone calls, I'm happy! I've got a 1 - 3 chance to hit my flush by the river, not to mention I probably clean up my Ace outs by raising here.

T

MrG · #8 08-16-2004, 09:54 PM

Another thing I just thought of is you don't have position to make a free card play. Also, see pg 174 of SSH for a good example of betting the turn instead of taking the free card. Is this case, the board pairs but I think you pairing you six is still a good time to bet the turn.

flexus · #9 08-16-2004, 09:57 PM

I don't think flop is at all big enough to justify raising with a draw out of position. You will earn more with your draws if you flat call here I think.

flexus · #10 08-16-2004, 09:59 PM

Well since you know for sure everyone wont fold, would it not be wiser to let them stay in to build a big, multiway pot for your draw?