Why you should care that Americans still believe in God:

[spaminator101]

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I honestly don't see the relevance of the last three sentences of your post.

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It was just an example.

[Token]

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I think Left minded folks, especially the ACLU, who even oppose the Gov't even acknowledging the existence of religion are the ones guilty of needlessly stressing on this issue. You will see in full force as Christmas approaches and heaven forbid some city puts up a Nativity scene.

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There is so much wrong with this statement I dont even know where to start. The government creating holidays for religious reasons and other similar things shows that the government can easily acknowledge religion without a peep from the ACLU. Putting up a nativity display is not acknowledging religion, it is using the tax dollars of Jews, Muslims, Athiests, etc to promote a specific religious position of Christians.

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There is a difference between freedom of religion and freedom from religion. As long as minority religious and non-religious practice is protected, there is nothing in the constitution that requires absolutely no recognition of majority religious beliefs such as holidays. Non-religion isn't the baseline whether you would like it to be or not. Even the primarily Deist founding fathers didn't believe that.

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After reading this, I have new hope for this forum. Finally someone who understands the issue.

Hi Token,

First of all, let me say that I do not understand your position vis-a-vis the posts you are quoting. We may be on the same team or the opposite one. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


Having said that, lets look at the difference between freedom from and freedom of, religion.

I think that the most fundamental of the two, because it doesn't impinge on the other, is freedom "FROM" religion. I don't seee at all, why anybody should need to comply with moral restrictions based solely on the beliefs of a "so-called" revealed doctrine.

Let me also explain the way I think we can differentiate between the two. One makes a behaviour a victim-less crime, the other is a crime with victim(s). Lets look at a few instances, and observe firstly, that if you bring religion into the motive for a piece of legislation you will run into the problem of which denomination beliefs should be, not accomodated by, but imposed on, others.

A good first example is alcohol consumption and sale. Some, even Christian denominations, find it unacceptable, or at the very least, morally wrong. Others do not. Which one should be the standard and should legislation reflect? None, in my mind as there are no victims! Families suffering from a close one being an alcoholic could be a different issue and may have to do with dereliction of civic duty etc... like not paying maintemance etc..

Another example would be prostitution. Why the hell would it be illegal? There are no victims. In the case where there is a pimp coercing or exploiting the prostitute, there there is a crime of coercion by force, which is a different issue, already legislated for.

A third example would be, drugs use. Against, no victims! The user is not complaining about unfair commercial practices of the dealer. The dealer does not complain about the user demanding drugs. If drug use drives you to crime, you have the usual legislation as a recourse against theft etc... No reason to prevent anyone doing something in the privacy of their home, by consenting adults, not hassling anyone else.

Anyway, there are more examples, but those are sufficient to see where the the problem/difference is between victimless crimes, and "legitimate", legislation, dogmatic and sectarian imposition of moral guidelines, and the famous "freedom" for which I understand most USA citizens stand.


As was very well put by Bigdaddydvo, as they say in the army: "stay in your lane". If you want to believe and subject yourself to restrictions, by all means do, but don't make me do it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Token]

I would answer, but I've decided to commit myself to not go off topic in relation to the OP.

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I would answer, but I've decided to commit myself to not go off topic in relation to the OP.

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LOL [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I should care that Americans still believe in God because, as has been demonstrated over and over again in history, the tendency for believers is to go beyond living the puritan and pious life themselves, impose their beliefs on others, and restrict the harmless, and often enjoyable behaviour of others, from their arrogant position.

The justification for this can be found in my previous post, the one just above Token's.