Not folding

[ggbman]

Maybe barron, but the flop was capped 3 ways, with action that suggests that someone has a strong made hand. I'm not saying you never have the best hand here. But against 2 random hands that cap the flop, especially with that action, you are still drawing a lot of the time, and furthermore getting 3 bet a ton. Just my HO, but i dont liek raising here., the last thing i want to do it reopen the betting.

Gabe

[jetsg4]

i think the sb has 23 and checks the river scared of a OE draw with the 6 that makes it home....

on a side note, ggbman... can you stop posting?? seriously.... i can't get one ounce of good from anything you post........................... that is, without printing it out........ that sexy swivel hip sexy animal in your avatar kills my concentration, it's my favorite. please change it immediately to a butterfly or something [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[DeeJ]

ok, street by street.

PF : Normally I'd be folding K9s here. Kxs has been a bad spewing hand for me and I'm playing it tighter these days. So mid position, K8/K9s is a limp to see a good flop. Your point about clearing KT/KJ is a good one but more often when htere are looseys playing I'm seeing them cold call and I end up paying for the privilege.

Flop: I have King high with flush draw. There is no reason to believe even if I hit my 9 or K I will be good. People do play crap.... my flush draw is probably good. So I'm just going with the flow as against 2 others my EV is about evens, against 3 others I'm gaining by calling (although we lose BB to the cap) but I don't want to pay more than necessary for a flush.

Turn: yeah, raise here? To me I'm up all the time against 2 pair or a set or a straight when the flop is capped on a coordinated board. As ggbman said, I took the same view here and considered I was likely way behind.

River: at least everyone agrees this is worth ducking [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Seether]

[ QUOTE ]
PF : Normally I'd be folding K9s here. Kxs has been a bad spewing hand for me and I'm playing it tighter these days. So mid position, K8/K9s is a limp to see a good flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if there are 3 limpers before you. Open limping in this position is honestly a horrible play.

On the flop, you cant see 76 or 88 getting aggressive? I think the turn is possibly a safe raise, the random 3 bet by CO is pretty often a draw and I think you might as well charge him 2 on the turn. On a river blank you can check it and he will almost always check behind i feel.

[Your Mom]

I can understand not raising the turn, but not raising PF and on the flop is just plain bad, in my opinion.

[DeeJ]

You raise K9s here pf? What about K9o? Or K8/K7s?

It's such a marginal position/holding ... but raising is usually better than calling! I'm an advocate of this as it rids you of cheap blinds stealing pots. OK. I need to work on how to play my K9 when Kxx flops and I'm outkicked by KT or KJ.

On the flop, why am I raising? To get more money in the pot when I'm likely behind? Nope. To eliminate opponents? I may get rid of people with 5x and 4x - but I'm not clearing out any of the 3 other players who hold 2pair or better, and I'm then paying over the odds for my flush draw. I'm highly unlikely to get a free card, and I don't need to define my hand.

However, playing about with twodimes I'm around 25% equity here versus Ax/twopair and even against a made straight... I'm pretty dead against AcXc though, and behind against trips. So raising is probably the correct play because of other benefits it might bring. I think this is one those occasions where I'm likely 2nd in terms of EV but still ahead of enough other players to try to fold them out and increase my pot equity ..... it's pretty thin stuff tho.

[Your Mom]

First in from MP, I either raise or fold. I like to raise much more than I like to fold against the typical donks I play against.

[DeeJ]

What about mid pairs? Do you raise with 66? What about JTs?

[Your Mom]

On the flop, you raise because 2 overcards and a flush draw is a hell of a hand, plus you want to maximize your ability to win when you pair one of those overcards. I'm happy for money to go in on this flop - you have a strong hand.

[DeeJ]

Don't forget the chance that I'm reverse dominated. Anyone with K4/K5/K6 has me spewing chips if K hits. Obviously I'm staying around for the flush draw, but I don't see that the overcards are worth much (because I lose as much when reverse dominated as I do when I'm ahead). KT/KJ like a King too. but that's why I should have raised pf, right? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]