30/60 giving up early

[daryn]

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Your timing tells are silly though.

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You're very kind [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I'm quite keen on timing tells - giving them rather than taking notice of them more usually. But when people take forever on a AA3 flop, I get suspicious. As noted, this scenario is pretty nasty for TT and the timing tell (which I only give some modest percentage of validity to) turned an uncomfortable call into a fold.

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giving them? do you think anyone cares? seriously.

[DeeJ]

If you think the answer is '0%, nobody cares ever' I think you're missing a trick. Sure, it isn't a play that is necessary effective even 30% of the time. But if you insta-bet when the Ace hits the river (or a 4-flush appears,etc) you are helping to increase your folding equity.

I guess it is more difficult to operate if you're multitabling.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
If you think the answer is '0%, nobody cares ever' I think you're missing a trick. Sure, it isn't a play that is necessary effective even 30% of the time. But if you insta-bet when the Ace hits the river (or a 4-flush appears,etc) you are helping to increase your folding equity.

I guess it is more difficult to operate if you're multitabling.

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i agree somewhat with the "timing" tells. although, i'd usually call them "betting tempo". and i rarely call them "tells".

i don't think they are very reliable, however. when having a borderline decision, your derived feeling from your opponent's tempo can help. but NEVER count it for more than 10-20% of your decision.

"tempos" are not reliable because many many people are playing multiple tables. and doing such, creates many legistical delays, rather than delays for thinking, contemplating or acting.

on my very good days, my "feel" for the game(s) i am in rises high; no other days, my "feel" is quite low. and obviously, part of the "feel" here involves decoding opponents' betting tempos.

having said all that, i still play quite an ABC poker most of the time. I think ABC gets the money, in the ring games.

anyway, that's my 2 cents.

- Kenny

[kiddo]

Problem with timetells - or any tell online - is that often people do something strange because they have a good guess about what u will do and this is excatly what they dont want u to do. They do something strange hoping u will answer with anything but your normal move.

One of my favourites I do myself is preclicking the betbutton everytime I am in BB and SB is first in limping preflop. If he checks flop I autobet and it will looks like Im pretty determined to win this small meaningsless pot, making him fold instead of taking a shot at me, as their plan often is.

[Mempho]

Pass on the small edge now and just call the flop since the turn will drastically affect your pot equite. Get the raise in on the turn if you get a blank. Anyone want to argue the merits of the overpair chapter in SSH?

[DeeJ]

I don't want to give any free or cheap card since I'm not gonna like any J,Q,K,A,9 (and not 8,7,6,5 either all of which can make a hand I was ahead of beat me badly) - which is over half the deck. Mr Loose may have raised behind me too (as he did in the actual hand) meaning I'm not going to see the turn cheaply anyway [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


two more points before I let y'all go. On the timing tell, remember that SB was last (virtually) to act preflop, and then first to make a decision when the flop appears, so his time to decide what to do is well exposed.

second point is the unimportant results. Mr Loose called the cap. Turn was an Ace, SB bet Mr Loose called. River was a King, SB bet Mr Loose called. SB shows 86o (offsuit!) for the flopped straight and Mr Loose mucks. (It should be noted that the original post was to generate the discussion it successfully did rather than to prove anything [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]). I guess SB called 1.5 pf with 86o because Mr Loose would be playing with a vast range of hands, and he probably didn't respect my raise much either [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (probably wisely)

[drbk2]

No way in hell can you fold this on the flop, especially online, especially on pacific.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

betting tempo is used more live than online and i certainly wouldn't trust it on a site with such bad software as pacific. that 3-4 second lapse could easily be a delay on pacific's part.

I've read a few of the responses and nobody seems to have pointed out that SB may well be playing you off Mr. Loose. If Mr. Loose is also Mr. Maniac -- WHAT'S HIS POSTFLOP AGGRO? -- then SB may well assume that his 9 is good and be hoping that his cap would do, well, exactly what it did do.

btw -- you said in a follow-up post that K9 or A9 is an easy decision for SB. I disagree. He may well prefer to c/r versus bet out.