LAG combat (cold donking included)

[DcifrThs]

if this is correct i'll be pretty damn pissed!!!!

i folded 44 on the button in an midlimit game w/ a 2p2er int he bb and a not good player in the small blind after a raise and a cold call....flop was Q54 and i woulda won a MONSTER pot b/c the 2p2er woulda capped the flop...but i judged it too many bets i'd have to make up since he'd fold too much...IF i knew BOTH would call i woulda...

but i do th ink you're pf call was a mistake (of course, given above paragraph) unless 3 of those players were 35/14 (loose and agro).

oh yea...raise the damn flop, you get so much more in there when you do that.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget the opening raiser is loose/aggressive preflop, and we're only 7-handed.

I would agree with you if his raising standards were higher - and I nearly folded here, too - but given he could have anything with a nice picture card, or suited, I was persuaded to hit the call button.

[/ QUOTE ]

given your preflop cold call you NEED to raise the flop. really really bad place to try to trick your opponents when they will defineatly give you plenty of action (ps - you only won 8bb this hand...you needed more)

-Barron

[DeeJ]

Barron, since you responded to my first ever post (on overcalling) surely you appreciate the flop call [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

In terms of raising the flop - I was more likely to lose BB but would have got more money in the pot. Maybe UTG would have 3-bet? But if he didn't hit the flop, he will likely call one more SB and then check-fold a blank turn. I wanted to induce the bluff from Mr LAG. Sometimes it will get raised up, but those times are probably when someone has a made straight and it's me who's catching up. Sometimes there will be an overpair but with CO folding and BB not raising pf and UTG having loose raising standards, I thought it was a relatively unlikely holding.

With hindsight and the comments (given all the info) I would still cold-call but yes, probably raise the "damn" flop.

[DeeJ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget the opening raiser is loose/aggressive preflop, and we're only 7-handed.

I would agree with you if his raising standards were higher - and I nearly folded here, too - but given he could have anything with a nice picture card, or suited, I was persuaded to hit the call button.

[/ QUOTE ]

given your preflop cold call you NEED to raise the flop. really really bad place to try to trick your opponents when they will defineatly give you plenty of action (ps - you only won 8bb this hand...you needed more)

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally agree about the flop raise, although if I had another player behind me I think the benefit of overcalls (and then possible call-reraising) is worth considering.

Also I thought LAG would bluff at the turn, which he did, and wouldn't have done if I had raised him and he had had nothing.

Can you look at my EV calculation and see if I got it wrong (I think I only need to avg 7.33BB profit)

[DeeJ]

Villain had AJo , which for him is actually a pretty good holding. Sadly he didn't check-raise me at the river [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] when he hit his straight, presumably fearing the boat, the flush or a higher straight having already been raised on the turn.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Would one more preflop cold caller in front of the hero make it mathematically sound? When I have small pairs up to 88 in LP and there are a couple cold callers after a EP raiser, I can't help but call. I'm pretty sure its profitable, but not positive.

Thoughts?

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. My default is two cold callers in front, or a limper and a cold caller, or... well you get the picture. I wanna take the flop five handed or more.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Barron, since you responded to my first ever post (on overcalling) surely you appreciate the flop call [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

dont know the context but it was probably on the river...or overcalling a safe flop to raise the turn...this one has many draws on it and overcards may call if they are bad and overpairs (which there are a lot of) will likely play back to "protect".

[ QUOTE ]


In terms of raising the flop - I was more likely to lose BB but would have got more money in the pot. Maybe UTG would have 3-bet? But if he didn't hit the flop, he will likely call one more SB and then check-fold a blank turn. I wanted to induce the bluff from Mr LAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

you dont need to induce lags...they do it anyways...sometimes, raising even sets them off b/c they're like, "oh, mr. on-a-draw- thinks he can raise me..HA...i reraise"

[ QUOTE ]

Sometimes it will get raised up, but those times are probably when someone has a made straight and it's me who's catching up. Sometimes there will be an overpair but with CO folding and BB not raising pf and UTG having loose raising standards, I thought it was a relatively unlikely holding.

With hindsight and the comments (given all the info) I would still cold-call but yes, probably raise the "damn" flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, raise.

-Barron

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
Would one more preflop cold caller in front of the hero make it mathematically sound?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi TSP,

Every person that enters the pot makes a big difference with this hand. Not only is there more money in the pot preflop, but more importantly, there's another person around to give you action should you flop your set.

I'm not sure how many people you need. Five is enough. Four? Feels close but losing. Three? Probably not. Just speculation though, I could be off. Three guys who all pay off to the river with ace high are probably plenty, for example.

Two coldcallers in front of you seems like a solid rule, especially since you'll have to have good position as well, helping maximize your profits on your sets. I'm probably folding here too much.

Good luck.
Eric