A lousy two pair hand 1/2 NL 6-max

Ghazban · #1 09-13-2005, 01:01 PM

From memory so exact #s might be a little off. We'll say no reads, too, since I don't exactly remember what I was thinking at the time. I either have villain covered or its very close (within $5)

I have 9d8d in the CO, 2 limpers, I limp, button folds, SB completes, BB raps.

Flop J98r ($10)

SB bets $5, BB calls, someone calls, someone folds, I call.

Turn is a 3 putting two of something other than diamonds out ($30)

SB bets $10, BB calls, someone folds, I make it $60, SB calls BB folds

River Q (no flush) ($160)

SB pushes for $85, I fold.

phillydilly · #2 09-13-2005, 01:15 PM

*note: i've been having a hell of a time with two pair lately, and have begun playing them much more aggressively

well, i raise the flop to start, i have bottom two on a board with all kinds of striaght draws, i want to get money in now

i raise to 40 on the flop, fold to 3bet
turn is tough, if someone called, its either a T or a hand thats beating me. I may very well check behind and try and pick off a river bluff (obviously not this river)
the other option is to throw out a 2/3 pot bet.
I'm trying to think how i play on a different river if he still pushes, but i think i'm folding to quite a bit here.

PinkSteel · #3 09-13-2005, 03:05 PM

With 4 opponents seeing the flop I'd bet it hard, assuming someone is likely on a straight draw and I want to price them out immediately.

Raise to $30, fold to a raise?

How has 6-max been treating you, Ghazban? I made the mistake of trying some last week and had my head handed to me.

#4 09-13-2005, 03:19 PM

because the flop is rainbow, I think you should make this pot big on the flop so you can really press it if the turn is a blank... if the turn comes 4 to a straight, then you will be stuck in no man's land but if it comes a blank, you can then push as there is a good pot worth fighting for...

If the flop comes like it did but with a 2-flush, I think your 2-pair is severely devalued... I will then do what you did... wait for safe turn... if it blanks, you correctly bet plenty and didn't pay off the straight on the river. I doubt he is bluffing there and you got outdrawn... so it goes...

Ghazban · #5 09-13-2005, 04:21 PM

On the flop, there are a zillion hands that have as much pot equity (or more) as my hand has. Hands like JT, T9, TT, QT, T8, J9, J8 are all correctly sticking around no matter how hard I hammer it. The only hand that sticks around with bad odds is a naked ten.

By waiting until the turn to commit a lot of money, I'm in a much better spot. There are too many scare cards to dodge in a multiway pot and betting hard won't chase out any of those hands. Once the turn bricks, I can feel a lot better about putting money into the pot. All those hands I'm beating are now underdogs to me and I can charge them an amount that will give them bad odds to see the river. If the turn is one of those many scare cards, I can get away from my mediocre bottom two without losing a ton of money. Furthermore, raising the flop reopens the betting and gives anybody with one of those drawing hands the chance to reraise and shut me out (calling a 3bet with bottom two on this board would be atrocious, in my opinion). Give me top two or a set and its a different story.

xorbie · #6 09-13-2005, 04:36 PM

You played it perfectly IMO.

TheWorstPlayer · #7 09-13-2005, 04:40 PM

I would like it 100% if effective stacks were another $100. I don't like leaving yourself with so little on the river relative to the pot, though. I do like not raising the flop. But I just push the turn.

#8 09-13-2005, 04:47 PM

There are too many scare cards to dodge in a multiway pot

how many cards are scary to you here without a flush out... just a Q or 7 to me... if you think A or K is scary -- you should raise to get those guys out... A ten might look scary too but less so if you raise...

its a tough situation but J9 & QT are only real hands I am scared of right now... set of Jacks? nah... 99 and 88 unlikely...

yvesaint · #9 09-13-2005, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There are too many scare cards to dodge in a multiway pot

how many cards are scary to you here without a flush out... just a Q or 7 to me...

[/ QUOTE ]

Q, J, T, 7 are all cards I do not want to see.

Ghazban · #10 09-13-2005, 05:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would like it 100% if effective stacks were another $100. I don't like leaving yourself with so little on the river relative to the pot, though. I do like not raising the flop. But I just push the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did consider this but that's a pretty substantial overbet that probably only gets called when I'm behind (and when I'm behind, I'm waaaaaay behind). Doesn't the pot raise get more value when I'm ahead as it can be called (incorrectly) by some other hands? Yeah, it sucks folding to a half pot all-in on the river but I think the odds of such a bet being a bluff are very slim.