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  #1  
Old 12-29-2005, 01:31 PM
SA125 SA125 is offline
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Default QQ on str draw flop

Live 20-40. Villain plays pretty good but is steaming right now from the previous big hand he folded to me, asked me what I had and I left him hanging in the wind to wonder about it.

Villain calls from EP, I raise QQ from EMP, folded to decent/passive BB who calls, Villain calls.

Flop T 8 2r. BB checks, Villain bets, I raise, BB calls 2 cold, Villain 3 bets with authority as he did the previous hand but seems determined not to fold this one, I call, BB calls.

Turn brick puts 2 fl out. BB checks, Villain doesn't hesitate and bets , I call, BB calls.

River brick. BB checks, Villain doesn't hesitate and bets, I raise.
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2005, 01:39 PM
AviD AviD is offline
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Default Re: QQ on str draw flop

[ QUOTE ]
Live 20-40. Villain plays pretty good but is steaming right now from the previous big hand he folded to me, asked me what I had and I left him hanging in the wind to wonder about it.

Villain calls from EP, I raise QQ from EMP, folded to decent/passive BB who calls, Villain calls.

Flop T 8 2r. BB checks, Villain bets, I raise, BB calls 2 cold, Villain 3 bets with authority as he did the previous hand but seems determined not to fold this one, I call, BB calls.

Turn brick puts 2 fl out. BB checks, Villain doesn't hesitate and bets , I call, BB calls.

River brick. BB checks, Villain doesn't hesitate and bets, I raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

SA I like it. Given the steam I'd be near certain he is raising TT and 88 PF rather than open limping, so 22 and T8s are your only real concern here. I also think he'd raise his big pockets and not risk limping with AA/KK. Chances are he'll 3-bet you with 22/T8s the river and you have an easy fold. I don't think he has another fold in him and will showdown whatever he has, which is why I like the river raise because he's only re-raising with a hand that beats yours IMO. As tilty as he gets, he has shown he is capable of making folds to your aggression, but he won't lay down a made hand here even if it's weaker because by not answering him the last time, he will now certainly want to know what you are holding this time. The only exception is a whiffed draw, in which case he isn't calling your raise again and it will increase his tilt because he doesn't know what you have again! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #3  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: QQ on str draw flop

care to elaborate why you chose to raise the river instead of the turn?

i'd rather charge the BB the max if he wants to hang around with his draw/crap pair that is probably drawing close to dead (or have up to 5 outs - ex. AT) rather than pwn the crap out of the steamer on the river.
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  #4  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:16 PM
ActionBob ActionBob is offline
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Default Re: QQ on str draw flop

I really don't like raising the river here. The turn is definitely the spot to raise. You've got the BB calling along and you certainly want to try and lose him here or at least make him pay more for a draw.

-ActionBob
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:46 PM
AviD AviD is offline
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Default Re: QQ on str draw flop

After re-reading this, I'd agree with the other posters, I had misread the BB's action, was too focused on villian, and raising the turn seems like the obvious play to charge the draw the max and/or to more clearly define BB's or Villian's hand. You lose 1BB from BB when he misses his draw and you raise the river.
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:25 PM
SA125 SA125 is offline
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Default Results

I posted this hand because I always take the standard line of raising the turn here, like everyone suggests, but waited for the river instead for the reason Avid mentioned about messing with him again. I got an unexpected result.

The BB folded, villain mucked showing QJo for a steam filled missed busted gutter with 2 overs, I dragged face down again.

The BB is now wide eyed and tells me I couldn't beat 2 pair. She says it a few more times as we're playing. I'm quiet. When I'm leaving for dinner she says "I saw your K when you folded. I had 2 pair, T-8." She was telling the truth. In the split second facing the unexpected river raise she ran and it was driving her nuts.

I took the river raise line figuring the BB for a missed draw and the Villain, who I had on 77-99 or TP, would get more pissed because he thought he had this one. I went for a late steam charge instead of the normal turn draw charge and think it helped steal the hand. Strange game sometimes.
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:18 PM
highlife highlife is offline
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Default Re: Results

cool little story.

in the future, how often will you play a similar hand the same way?
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:24 PM
SA125 SA125 is offline
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Default Re: Results

This was a steam detour I'd take again for that reason but otherwise I'll play the flop faster or charge the draws on the turn like everyone else.
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:51 PM
AviD AviD is offline
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Default Re: Results

yes definitely a cool hand with interesting results! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:53 PM
dave44 dave44 is offline
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Default Re: QQ on str draw flop

So you sacrificied EV in order to tilt a player- consider me not a big fan.
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