So I thought I should fold my boat...

MrWookie47 · #1 11-02-2005, 12:32 AM

But I think I like this call down with A high. Same table as my other post, but earlier in the night. Pax hadn't shown up yet. It was just Pedro, Jax, Bottomset and I.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, BB (bottomset) 3-bets, Hero caps, bottomset calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, bottomset calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, bottomset raises, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, bottomset bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Why do I think this call down was better? Is it better?

NateDog · #2 11-02-2005, 12:37 AM

Set has JTs and YHIG.

#3 11-02-2005, 01:00 AM

I think his 3bet range is pretty large from the BB HU preflop. a majority of them aren't pairs, and you're not trailing anything else. You're definitely ahead often enough.

#4 11-02-2005, 01:45 AM

I think you have to call the turn the majority of the time (if not three-betting). Not quite sure if I'm evaluating this correctly, but the tighter bottomset's PF three-betting range is, the more often you're ahead on the turn (sez PokerStove), in addition to the times you improve to the best hand. Also considering the size of the pot, I really don't think folding is an option. He could be raising the turn with almost anything as it's likely it hasn't connected with your possible high-cards.

Wouldn't bet-folding be better here if you're committed to calling a bet on the river? Check-calling allows for bottomset to take a free showdown with a worse A-high or busted draw, and value bet any pair he's made (as an A-high is probably calling on this board, and your play is consistant unpaired overs).

I guess it depends on his propensity to bet the river with a busted draw, or bluff-raise with the same (read dependent). But after you call the turn raise, I generally can't see him seeing you fold the river with an A or an overpair often enough.

Anyway, yeah. Just some thoughts that may or may not be completely wrong.

MrWookie47 · #5 11-02-2005, 01:48 AM

I definitely see your point about wanting to bet the river. The question is, though, is he going to give up with a busted draw? Can I get one more bluff bet out of him? Would he consider raising with a worse hand, bluffing me out of a pot that was mine?

Nfinity · #6 11-02-2005, 01:59 AM

His Flop play combined with his Turn play looks like UI overs or 55, 66.

Your really close to convincing me on the River, but I have to know what made him opt out of the free showdown play with overs.

Maybe he expects you to expect the free showdown and bet.

LoaferGee12 · #7 11-02-2005, 02:27 AM

I play this the same way. You really can't fold AK here in this HU blind defense pot.

Nfinity · #8 11-02-2005, 03:16 AM

Yes you can find a fold on this river.

You have shown Bottomset your strength and willingness to go to showdown, both by capping pre-flop and leading the Flop, as well as bet calling on the Turn. True this board is ragged and you probably don't have a piece of it, but that doesn't mean you need to.

Set's Turn raise is typical of a weak but showdownable hand. The point is to either fold you on the Turn, or check the River UI. When you call here he can't want to be putting any more money in without making a hand.

On the river there are only 2 kinds of hands that bet here: hands that beat you, and hands that stand absolutely no chance in a showdown, and given the action there are very few of those.

Most of the the hands you beat(and a few that don't) check this river.

Let me throw this out there. Since this is a fairly large pot that we want to win, and Set has shown a desire for a free showdown, why give him one? Why not bet/fold this River. Sure we get called by a Pair here and there that would have checked through, but you might make a few of them fold, and you will induce a couple more crying calls from naked Aces. You certainly won't be giving a weaker hand a chance to bluff you out on the river.

bottomset · #9 11-02-2005, 04:01 AM

bottomset wasn't playing anywhere near his best game at this table, or tonight ..

and I always look bad in these posts were I'm featured as a villian

Shillx · #10 11-02-2005, 04:05 AM

Don't fold Wookie. You gonna be in Vegas in a few days right Bset?????

Edit - Awesome dude. Looks like we just got moved to the Bellagio (with Donkey, Entity and Jason T). Will be good times. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]