$215 Custer hand #2 - AKo whiffs v 2

Is it really necessary to bet this flop? (no sarcasm, honest question)

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
"don't you think that in this particular hand a smaller c-bet of about 175 would still make either Villain feel like they had to commit their whole stack to continue, while leaving them more exposed when they raise cos the pot is smaller? "

It might, it might not. For 75 more chips (which have some equity because I might win the pot anyway when my opponent calls), is it worth taking a chance that the opponent doesn't view both bet sizes the same way?

moses

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a quick clarification...are you actually trying to get them to fold a better hand, something like 66? Or are you just trying to prevent them from playing back with AK or a weaker no-pair?

[curtains]

Sometimes these dry flops are actually bad bluffing flops for AK because the small/medium pairs aren't going anywhere.

[tigerite]

Yeah, that was my thought here. But what would you do here? Personally I might even check..

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that was my thought here. But what would you do here? Personally I might even check..

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, the normal play is to bet some amont like 150-250, but ok if you think there are very good chances that one of your two opponents have a pocket pair, then they arent going anywhere, so betting becomes stupid. In any case I think checking is fine. As a large stack I usually am more aggressive, but theres really no benefit to it here. The most common hands that youll get cold calls with in this spot PF, are some kind of pairs. I'm too concerned that at least one of my two opponents have one.

[Jason Strasser]

Who said anything about bluffing, Curtains?

The reason you are betting the flop here isnt to get worse hands to fold....... I sometimes bet flop sometimes check flop, depends on my opponent. If he's not going to bluff a lot or value bet correctly Im more likely to check. If he's a good player I'll pot it.

-jason

[bruce]

I couldn't have said it any better myself, but I'm not a Dukey.

With the release of HOH everyone now knows what a cbet is. Observant players will pick off small cbet's with air all day long. Your best defense is making the cbet bigger. He now has to risk more to rob you.

Barry Greenstein was doing the color for Live at the Bike and this is exactly what he said. I began a thread in the MTT section regarding this around four months ago and Barry
responded to the thread a few times.
Jason must have been listening to Barry or Barry read this first.

Bruce

[ QUOTE ]

With the release of HOH everyone now knows what a cbet is. Observant players will pick off small cbet's with air all day long. Your best defense is making the cbet bigger. He now has to risk more to rob you.


[/ QUOTE ]

I hate it when people make assumptions on typical $215 players. I doubt this player has read HOH, and might not be an observant player. Molding opponents into a depiction of you is not something you should do.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Who said anything about bluffing, Curtains?

The reason you are betting the flop here isnt to get worse hands to fold....... I sometimes bet flop sometimes check flop, depends on my opponent. If he's not going to bluff a lot or value bet correctly Im more likely to check. If he's a good player I'll pot it.

-jason

[/ QUOTE ]

There are two opponents, not one. You are implying a single opponent.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Who said anything about bluffing, Curtains?

The reason you are betting the flop here isnt to get worse hands to fold....... I sometimes bet flop sometimes check flop, depends on my opponent. If he's not going to bluff a lot or value bet correctly Im more likely to check. If he's a good player I'll pot it.

-jason

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW the reason I bet this flop is to get worse hands to fold, since I know there is little chance that better hands than mine will fold. I check this more than I bet it.