SSH and tight low limit games.

[Zim]

Hey guys,

Quick question: Is the advice in SSH applicable to tight 2/4 games?

I'm new to limit, just started ... but from playing at Absolute, Cryptos, and even Pokerrom, I rarely see flop percentages over 26%.

Actually, at Absolute they were as low as 16%.

The book is fantastic, really opened my eyes to the game, but I'm not sure how much of the advice is relevant for the games I find myself in.

Any thoughts, or book recommendations would be appreciated. Tight games tend to thwart me.

Best,
Zim

[bernie]

What other books have you read?

b

[Zim]

Hey Bernie,

Started with WLLH (2nd edition) a while back, played a little ... didn't really gel, so I turned my attention to NL.

Played around with NL, low stakes ($25-$50) for a year, flipped through Super System, but after making a few thousand, losing a few thousand, I decided to start at the beginning again ... and with Limit.

Bought GSIH and played a few thousand hands of $1 and $2 limit, enough to find myself breaking even, then plunged into SSH about three nights ago.

Decided to give up on trying to play 10 tables at once, and plunked myself down at 2 tables (2/4 on the pokerroom network) and actually watch the action.

Find myself enjoying the game much more now.

I think that there is a considerable step from GSIH to SSH, and I still question the general attitude that low limit games are filled with loose, uneducated players. Perhaps in B&M casinos, but online ... tight play is more the norm, I find.

Thanks for any feedback, looks like from your number of posts you've been around for sometime. All recommendations would be appreciated.

Cheers!
Zim

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the advice given by SSHE even if the games are tight

Only thing is, that the preflop chart become a bit too loose, but if you adjust those, then you are on a roll

I have had similar concerns about what type of games the advice in SSHE applies to. I'm quite new to poker and I'm currently playing a lot at NobelPoker, usually 1-2$ limit. There, the 10-handed tables are quite tight (20-30% flop) so I find myself playing a lot at the six-handed tables (50-70% flop). Problem is that I'm doing quite miserably at these tables, even though I think I grasp and follow the concepts in SSHE. Usually, I find that the super-aggressive players win the most! Instead, I win when I enter the tight 10-handed tables. What can I be doing wrong at 6-h? Is the advice is SSHE so dependent on 10-h games? If so, how should I adjust my game (the advice in SSHE) to fit 6-h?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I have had similar concerns about what type of games the advice in SSHE applies to. I'm quite new to poker and I'm currently playing a lot at NobelPoker, usually 1-2$ limit. There, the 10-handed tables are quite tight (20-30% flop) so I find myself playing a lot at the six-handed tables (50-70% flop). Problem is that I'm doing quite miserably at these tables, even though I think I grasp and follow the concepts in SSHE. Usually, I find that the super-aggressive players win the most! Instead, I win when I enter the tight 10-handed tables. What can I be doing wrong at 6-h? Is the advice is SSHE so dependent on 10-h games? If so, how should I adjust my game (the advice in SSHE) to fit 6-h?

[/ QUOTE ]

SSHE isn't a book on shorthanded (6 handed) poker. It's for more of a full table.

b

[I am fish]

Hi Disco,
Short handed play requires a different style of play to win than a full game. You are right that a very aggressive style is what wins. I recommend checking out the short handed forums here if you plan on continuing 6 max.
Peace

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
Only thing is, that the preflop chart become a bit too loose, but if you adjust those, then you are on a roll

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the tight starting chart is already tighter than what HEFAP recommends for a really tough mid limit game. So you don't need to tighten up even further to be tighter than the field. When the field is too tight, atleast when that extends to postflop play as well, you want more, not less chances to steal.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Started with WLLH (2nd edition) a while back, played a little ... didn't really gel, so I turned my attention to NL.

Played around with NL, low stakes ($25-$50) for a year, flipped through Super System, but after making a few thousand, losing a few thousand, I decided to start at the beginning again ... and with Limit.

Bought GSIH and played a few thousand hands of $1 and $2 limit, enough to find myself breaking even, then plunged into SSH about three nights ago.


[/ QUOTE ]

Cool. One thing about most books is that they're split up into the streets. So if you have to, go street by street. I'd recommend getting preflop down first. Play a bit tighter than recommended until you have the main positional hands down and are comfortable with them postflop. Then expand your starters a bit. WLLH is good. Another thing is to get involved in the strategy forums. This will accelerate the learning process and answer most questions you have on many of the main concepts. Find a hand, respond to it, then check your thinking against the other responders. Don't be afraid to be wrong and looking foolish. Others will help point you in the right direction. We've all been there. It does take time and effort. It generally doesn't happen too fast to develop. It can take awhile to 'click'.

Switching from n/l to limit and back and forth could hinder you. They are different in many aspects. I've found it was easier to learn limit, then once I had that down, go to other forms. It just seemed to crossover better. Even then, I had to watch for leaks that tended to develop when switching from n/l back to limit.(primarily developed looseness preflop)

[ QUOTE ]
I think that there is a considerable step from GSIH to SSH, and I still question the general attitude that low limit games are filled with loose, uneducated players. Perhaps in B&M casinos, but online ... tight play is more the norm, I find.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd reread GSIH then read WLLH. Make sure you understand most of what you're reading. You should eventually be able to explain reasonably why you made each move you did during a hand.

The games can start to tighten up around 2-4 or higher online(UB. not sure about the other sites). I've found many online 3-6 to 5-10 games(UB) play tougher than 10-20 or 20-40 live. However, playing those tighter tables for lower limits is a cheaper education for tougher games.

Play the lower games(1-2 and lower) until you can beat it. (fwiw, my latest roll I started on the .01-.02 tables) It may not take that long to convince/prove to yourself. A month or 2 if you really delve into it. But you want to start out beating the crap players. Don't buy into the sh*t that it's a lottery and takes no skill. If that were true, everyone on there would be winning. They aren't. Don't worry about making money, just worry about playing well. If you do that, the money will follow regardless of what longshot just beat you on the river.

Then, once you get WLLH, GSIH and start understanding SSHE more, try HEPFAP or Theory of Poker. Note that you won't understand everything in the books right away. It takes awhile to process as there is really quite a bit there. Which is one reason why many of us have read multiple beginner books along with other books. Some concepts click in one book while others click in other books. Different ways of expaining stuff. It also helps when you are actually in the situation and can see how it works in a real game. Experience is huge. Again, posting on the strategy forums is invaluable.

[ QUOTE ]
looks like from your number of posts you've been around for sometime.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been around awhile. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] But nowadays, postcount doesn't always mean much.

Have a good one!

b

good advice all around.

i somewhat concur with adapting SSHE tight chart. tighten it up alot and really watch position. in my limited recent experience with tight/aggressive, i kept getting run over post-flop and couldn't figure out if it was lousy flops or not. i just wasn't used to the aggression of my opponents or that i was supposed to be applying myself.

given that we are talking about adapting other books for very tight games, i'd have a look at harrington. his is no-limit but he is very, very tight and has great respect for 1) postion; 2) prior raise(s). exactly the kind of mindset you want. although you'd have to think thru no-limit vs. super-tight limit.