party 3/6 stud/8

[bugstud]

Nice 70+ avg pot 3/6 stud/8 game.

I have (Q9) 9 and complete after a 3 brings it and a 8 flat calls. A 4 coldcalls and the bringin and limper call.

(Qd 9h) 9s 4s
(X X ) 8h 8d
(X X ) 4h Ts
(X X ) 3s Td

The 8's bet and all call. (I took one off to try and hit)

(Qd 9h) 9s 4s 9d
(X X ) 8h 8d Kh
(X X ) 4h Ts 2c
(X X ) 3s Td 2d

I bet and only the 8's fold.

(Qd 9h) 9s 4s 9d Ad
(X X ) 8h 8d Kh XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
(X X ) 4h Ts 2c As
(X X ) 3s Td 2d Ac

I again bet and the two opponents call.

(Qd 9h) 9s 4s 9d Ad (Qh)
(X X ) 8h 8d Kh XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
(X X ) 4h Ts 2c As (X)
(X X ) 3s Td 2d Ac (X)

I bet and both call.

Comments?

[Vehn]

I will be blunt. Expect to go broke if you habitually play split 9s in stud/8 totally regardless of game/table conditions.

[bugstud]

good call on that, though these pots generally were 3 handed on 4th to a raise, and they'd fold if they brick. I felt like making a play on this pot.

[bugstud]

I was the highest upcard, all the rest were low cards besides a folded J in front of me. It was 6-handed, and the game had tightened up the past couple of deals. Playing split nines 8 handed with good players is suicide, yes.

[crashdavis]

Ok calling the split nines against the pair 8 not good and maybe later when the two aces come off. But every source that I have read says play the split nines on third with a high kicker Jacks or above.

?

[Vehn]

Maybe in normal 7CS its OK, but in stud/8 its suicide for the most part except in very special circumstances. Here's 2 examples of 3 way match ups:

7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 9d Qh 65389 262711 237278 11 0 0 0 0.328
As 8c 2c 76691 119752 380236 12 170155 61790 192 0.338
6d 7h 3h 79787 117522 382471 7 185909 45187 192 0.334


Now check your ev if you have split kings:

7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ts Kc Kd 72172 279105 220887 8 0 0 0 0.351
As 8c 2c 68287 104352 395627 21 169630 62077 214 0.316
6d 7h 3h 81159 116520 383463 17 186590 44796 214 0.332

[sam h]

I agree with you Vehn that split nines are a terrible starter in Stud8. But these stats don't really tell you that much - the EV is pretty equal after all. The reason split nines are crappy is that the game isn't hot and cold and that these mediocre high hands are almost impossible to play profitably after third. Too often, you end up folding the higher winner or paying too many bets to draw slim. At least that's how I understand it.

[Vehn]

What he said.

[bugstud]

yeah, I understand that much, everyone plays marginally sometimes. I decided to try and get flamed for mine instead of leaking my money away. Thing is, party players often don't have that good of a hand, if I remember your stud/8 on party vehn you experienced as much.

[Andy B]

Without reading the other responses:

Muck on third. Weak one-way hands are death in this game.

Muck on fourth. You are now chasing for half the pot. This is also death in this game.

Once you hit on fifth, you of course bet and raise the rest of the way.