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#31
07-28-2005, 01:04 AM
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Re: Playing a draw against a LAG, trying to pick up bluff outs
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You're missing the point that everyone is saying, which, restated, is that when he folds to the river bet, you're not bluffing. He's folding a worse hand. [/ QUOTE ] He called with K9 off. ~ Tilts [/ QUOTE ] you are now officially the matador 
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#33
07-28-2005, 01:57 AM
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Re: Playing a draw against a LAG, trying to pick up bluff outs
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You're missing the point that everyone is saying, which, restated, is that when he folds to the river bet, you're not bluffing. He's folding a worse hand. [/ QUOTE ] He called with K9 off. ~ Tilts [/ QUOTE ] you are now officially the matador [/ QUOTE ] Whatever, call me all the names you like. I already said I got lucky and the result of the hand is basically meaningless. ~ Tilts
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#34
07-28-2005, 02:17 AM
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Re: Playing a draw against a LAG, trying to pick up bluff outs
[ QUOTE ]
I already said I got lucky and the result of the hand is basically meaningless [/ QUOTE ] This will probably be the last post of your I respond to, unless your attitude changes. The results of the hand prove exactly what everybody has been saying, the bluff play against this opponent HAD TO FAIL. Now, against somebody that cluelessly aggro c/c the river w/ King high certainly has some merit, and it can't hurt the shania. Betting as a bluff, however, is pointless, as his call cleary shows. More to the point, your posts are irritating. You put up very player specific situations, and ask for advice. You then get a ton of it, and try to refute everything that some of the best players on here tell you. If you want to learn, the first thing you have to do is believe people when they tell you that you screwed up a hand. The alternative, of course, is to keep saying "no, my way was right", and you'll eventually go broke because you won't refine your game. Choice is yours... lf
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#35
07-28-2005, 02:19 AM
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Re: Playing a draw against a LAG, trying to pick up bluff outs
[ QUOTE ]
I have been representing a jack or a 10 the whole way. The draws on board all miss, a 3rd jack comes, and I bet out because I probably cannot win the pot unless my opponent folds [/ QUOTE ] You're often incorrect in assuming a player this horrible is paying any attention at all to what YOU are representing. They probably couldn't care less. lf
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#36
07-28-2005, 02:30 AM
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Re: Playing a draw against a LAG, trying to pick up bluff outs
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I already said I got lucky and the result of the hand is basically meaningless [/ QUOTE ] This will probably be the last post of your I respond to, unless your attitude changes. The results of the hand prove exactly what everybody has been saying, the bluff play against this opponent HAD TO FAIL. Now, against somebody that cluelessly aggro c/c the river w/ King high certainly has some merit, and it can't hurt the shania. Betting as a bluff, however, is pointless, as his call cleary shows. More to the point, your posts are irritating. You put up very player specific situations, and ask for advice. You then get a ton of it, and try to refute everything that some of the best players on here tell you. If you want to learn, the first thing you have to do is believe people when they tell you that you screwed up a hand. The alternative, of course, is to keep saying "no, my way was right", and you'll eventually go broke because you won't refine your game. Choice is yours... lf [/ QUOTE ] I don't really care if you ever respond to my posts if you are going to respond like this. I told you the river call surprised me. I told you I got lucky. The results are NOT RELEVANT. What is relevant is the play given the read (the read which in retrospect was incorrect, as I have acknowledged). Grow up and try to learn to post disagreement with someone without being such an ass. ~ Tilts
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#37
07-28-2005, 02:33 AM
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Re: Playing a draw against a LAG, trying to pick up bluff outs
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I have been representing a jack or a 10 the whole way. The draws on board all miss, a 3rd jack comes, and I bet out because I probably cannot win the pot unless my opponent folds [/ QUOTE ] You're often incorrect in assuming a player this horrible is paying any attention at all to what YOU are representing. They probably couldn't care less. lf [/ QUOTE ] No, he was not a brain-dead lag. He was a thinking lag, as his turn raise demonstrates. He liked to try plays. I believe that he called me on the river because he actually believed his K was good, and that I had missed my low flush draw and was bluffing him. Further hands with him demonstrated that he was in fact quite perceptive, and he made some really nice calldowns and some astute folds. I really think you're not giving your competition enough credit if you assume they're playing 15/30 and they don't pay attention to what you're representing. That's just about never going to be true. ~ Tilts
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#38
07-28-2005, 02:39 AM
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Re: Playing a draw against a LAG, trying to pick up bluff outs
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I already said I got lucky and the result of the hand is basically meaningless [/ QUOTE ] This will probably be the last post of your I respond to, unless your attitude changes. The results of the hand prove exactly what everybody has been saying, the bluff play against this opponent HAD TO FAIL. Now, against somebody that cluelessly aggro c/c the river w/ King high certainly has some merit, and it can't hurt the shania. Betting as a bluff, however, is pointless, as his call cleary shows. More to the point, your posts are irritating. You put up very player specific situations, and ask for advice. You then get a ton of it, and try to refute everything that some of the best players on here tell you. If you want to learn, the first thing you have to do is believe people when they tell you that you screwed up a hand. The alternative, of course, is to keep saying "no, my way was right", and you'll eventually go broke because you won't refine your game. Choice is yours... lf [/ QUOTE ] I don't really care if you ever respond to my posts if you are going to respond like this. I told you the river call surprised me. I told you I got lucky. The results are NOT RELEVANT. What is relevant is the play given the read (the read which in retrospect was incorrect, as I have acknowledged). Grow up and try to learn to post disagreement with someone without being such an ass. ~ Tilts [/ QUOTE ] This is exactly what everybody here is trying to tell you. You don't want to hear that you made a mistake against the wrong kind of player. At no point was I rude, or insulting. You just want to post so everybody can say "wow, nice move". Sometimes that will happen, this hand, was poorly played on every street. When you learn to accept criticism and get over your own ego, you might actually be able to contribute to this forum. lf
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#39
07-28-2005, 02:48 AM
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Re: Playing a draw against a LAG, trying to pick up bluff outs
You left one very important piece of information out of the OP. You said he was 70/27 or something right? Over how many hands?
I'm sorry, and i'm not trying to be argumentitive, but i've never encountered a 70 VPIP that even knows where the fold button is, let alone uses it at the correct times. Now if this was over like 37 hands or something, maybe he just got a really nice run of cards, and his stats really don't reflect is style of play. If they are indicitive of his game, however, your line in this spot was destined to fail. lf
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#40
07-28-2005, 02:58 AM
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Re: Playing a draw against a LAG, trying to pick up bluff outs
tilt-
If he called you with K high, he is going to call you with a pocket pair or ace high as well. If you believe otherwise(I believe you would be wrong), then it is a read, and you go with it. If you were just going to stick with your read and not examine all sides of the hand, then there is no need to post it here. No harm intended. Jason
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