7csfap

greatwhite · #1 08-22-2005, 11:48 AM

Hey, I have been doing alot of research on whether or not I should buy any more stud books than that recently. I decided not to, because I was thinking about buying West and/or Kammen's book, but I've been hearing too many bad things about both of them so I don't want them to screw up my game. Anyway this is my current stud library: 7CSFAP, TOP, and SSI. I don't have the Essays or any books on psycology except Caro's Book of Poker Tells which helps me(only helps me at my friend's houses). I play mostly online playing from .50/1 to 2/4 at Party Poker. I really follow 7CSFAP to heart, but I feel like I'm not bringing my profits to the max. I guess what I am asking is what do you all think that I need to change in my game for these low limits? I hear there is only small adjustments, but what are they? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

PoorLawyer · #2 08-22-2005, 03:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, I have been doing alot of research on whether or not I should buy any more stud books than that recently. I decided not to, because I was thinking about buying West and/or Kammen's book, but I've been hearing too many bad things about both of them so I don't want them to screw up my game. Anyway this is my current stud library: 7CSFAP, TOP, and SSI. I don't have the Essays or any books on psycology except Caro's Book of Poker Tells which helps me(only helps me at my friend's houses). I play mostly online playing from .50/1 to 2/4 at Party Poker. I really follow 7CSFAP to heart, but I feel like I'm not bringing my profits to the max. I guess what I am asking is what do you all think that I need to change in my game for these low limits? I hear there is only small adjustments, but what are they? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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Drawing hands like 3 flushes are more important because there will usually be 4+ players in the hand. Conversely, you need to be more careful with high pairs as playing them fast into a large field can often get you into trouble. The only other thing different I can think of is not to semi-bluff/bluff as often because most people arent paying attention to your board and to bet for value on the river more than you (or at least I) feel is comfortable...

Andy B · #3 08-22-2005, 09:26 PM

I am responsible for spreading misinformation about the Kammen book, so I went out and bought it. I'm only about halfway through, but I don't recommend it. I'll elaborate some time this week.

Mason's Essays books are all very good, and all contain stud articles, so you might want to pick those up. I find Othmer's book unreadable, but some folks like that one.

I recommend that you steer clear of Party's $.50/1.00 game. The ante is ridiculously high. It doesn't make the game unbeatable, but if you adjust your strategy for that structure, it should hinder your ability to move up.

greatwhite · #4 08-22-2005, 10:38 PM

Andy B, you aren't the reason I decided not to buy it. I heard other reviews from people on here that thought it was worse than West's book which you don't recommend buying. Thanks PoorLawyer for your advice, but how big is the change for high ante games?

ParisJim · #5 08-22-2005, 11:23 PM

I highly recommend Roy West's book. A lot of people don't like it because it teaches you to be patient (much like 7csfap) and with today's players that have been raised on edited versions of TV tourneys that play for millions every week, they find West's ideas slow and old fashioned. But believe me, if you follow the concepts he shows in his book, you will be a more alert and a more profitable player. It's probably the best stud book in my library. Worth every penny.

greatwhite · #6 08-22-2005, 11:29 PM

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I highly recommend Roy West's book. A lot of people don't like it because it teaches you to be patient (much like 7csfap) and with today's players that have been raised on edited versions of TV tourneys that play for millions every week, they find West's ideas slow and old fashioned. But believe me, if you follow the concepts he shows in his book, you will be a more alert and a more profitable player. It's probably the best stud book in my library. Worth every penny.

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, but from what I've heard he suggests call on 3rd/fold on 4th to much. That sounds like a very harmful approach to your game.

Andy B · #7 08-23-2005, 01:50 AM

If you have 7CS4AP or S/S, then West is not the best stud book in your library.

I don't like West's book because he is slow and old-fashioned. I don't like it because it has too much substandard advice. I have harped about one particularly egregious example many times, including in this post.

West seems very likable. I liked some of his Card Player articles, and he is responsible for the best poker advice there is on a per-word basis ("play happy, or don't play"), but I just don't think this book is very good overall.

PoorLawyer · #8 08-23-2005, 11:33 AM

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Andy B, you aren't the reason I decided not to buy it. I heard other reviews from people on here that thought it was worse than West's book which you don't recommend buying. Thanks PoorLawyer for your advice, but how big is the change for high ante games?

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I don't play on party so I don't know about that high ante .5/1 game, but I hear the basic advice for it is stay the hell away.

#9 08-23-2005, 12:46 PM

The main problem that you will have using 7CSFAP at 0.5/1 is that it's written for a 15/30 game, which is very different from the games you'll be playing. The Roy West book, which is significantly better than the Kammen book (and I have actually read all of both of them, for my sins) is aimed at games like this. It does have some faults, but it teaches you most of the fundamentals in a simple and easy to follow way. For me, it took me from being a break-even player at 1/2, to being able to do very well at 2/4 and 3/6, and I'm now beginning to play 5/10 (so far, doing reasonably well). I would recommend it for people looking to play these sorts of games. I had also read the Chip Reese section in Super System, but didn't find it as easy to apply (although I think it is theoretically more sound).

I think the best idea is to get the West book, learn to beat the low limit games, and then reread 7CSFAP. Where they conflict, go with 7CSFAP, but ask questions here if you aren't sure, or if you disagree with anything in it.