KK on paired board

DWarrior · #1 10-05-2005, 01:17 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

MP1 ($48)
MP2 ($50.80)
MP3 ($75.90)
CO ($79.55)
Button ($30.60)
Hero ($51.25)
BB ($49.50)
UTG ($48.50)
UTG+1 ($48)
UTG+2 ($46)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
7 folds, Button calls $0.50, Hero (poster) raises to $2.75, 1 fold, Button calls $2.50.

Flop: ($6.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $4, Button raises to $8, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($22.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Hero calls $19.60.
(I almost folded here, pitting him on a Jack, but then I remembered all the donks who did the same thing and showed me something retarded)

River: ($42.10) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $42.10
He shows KTo, 2-pair and I take the pot

I always thought the emphasis was to try and read my opponents, but I'm finding out more and more that most people at $50NL are unreadable. Yesterday I had AA on a suited flop, and a guy ended up calling me down with KTo (top pair) and hitting his T for 2-pair.

Should I just play my premium hands and accept outdraws as losses, or should I try to read my opponents and accept stupid bluffs/overplays as losses?

Kyriefurro · #2 10-05-2005, 01:30 PM

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Should I just play my premium hands and accept outdraws as losses, or should I try to read my opponents and accept stupid bluffs/overplays as losses?

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither, really. You should try to play the best you can, which includes reading the board and trying to understand what your opponent is thinking. Deciding to play your "premium" hands no matter what tends to cause tunnel vision - you focus only on what you have, and loose sight of what's going on around you. As I've recently had the misfortune to experience, it doesn't take long for players to notice this and take advantage. The beating you'll take is beyond ugly.

Against a complete unknown, I would have had no problem folding this hand. However if I'd seen him make this type of play once or twice before against other players, or if I'd seen him win several pots by raising like this then I'd be inclined to look him up - as long as the price wasn't too high.

This particular player has probably had a lot of success with plays like these. He probably gets an emotional charge out of watching opponents fold hands like these. Make a note on this type of player so you remember him the next time you see him. You should make a lot of money off him [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

P.S. Your comment about remembering a lot of donks betting like this is limit/site/game specific. You need to be aware that this will not be the case as you move to other games.

JeanieJ · #3 10-05-2005, 01:40 PM

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I always thought the emphasis was to try and read my opponents,

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I think this holds more true to live play than online play. Don't get me wrong reading players is important to a degree online, but it's not quite the same as live play.

Given you had no read or stats (assuming) on the guy, I think your play was questionable. Not ALL players are donks, and I think you'll be up against a Jack here often enough for this play to lose it's value. At the 50 I've noticed most players are straight forward. There are bluffs of course, but not quite like you see at the 25.

[ QUOTE ]
(I almost folded here, pitting him on a Jack, but then I remembered all the donks who did the same thing and showed me something retarded)

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This is bad thinking for a few reasons. Not every player is the same. You can't play a hand differently because one opponent happened to bluff at the same board. What one opponent does, should not effect how you play against other opponents. Thinking like this will cost you money. Play your best game and don't let past results effect how you're playing.

#4 10-05-2005, 01:43 PM

You have to keep working on reads. I know my objective is not to make as much as I can at the 50NLs but to do so at the 2000NLs. BR has me a long way from being THERE, but on the path to getting there I think learning to read things accurately will be key.

He's probably putting you on a drawing hand, if he's reading at all. One of the powers of the wired pair is that they can be so hidden, either as sets or as overpairs.

DWarrior · #5 10-05-2005, 01:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have to keep working on reads. I know my objective is not to make as much as I can at the 50NLs but to do so at the 2000NLs. BR has me a long way from being THERE, but on the path to getting there I think learning to read things accurately will be key.

He's probably putting you on a drawing hand, if he's reading at all. One of the powers of the wired pair is that they can be so hidden, either as sets or as overpairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but you can't play the same way on 50NL as you do on 2000NL, so what exactly are the differences.

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Also, what draw is he putting me on here? KQ? 89? If he puts me on a straight draw, I just hit it on the turn with 89. His all-in makes no sense at all. He's not beating AT, and why would I PFR with QT? You clearly can't give him credit for being a reasonable player.

It really reminds me of those announcers on TV saying "Matusow sensed weakness and moved all-in".