88, standard?

Roy6 · #1 10-31-2005, 07:02 AM

Very LAGGy table, UTG is 46/23 spewing maniac, MP seems normal but this seems to be an isolation raise, SB coldcalling 3 is very fishy (40/13) with random agression holding nothing.

Do you think 88 is strong enough here to 3-bet? UTG likely has crap, MP has something legit, but could isolate with KJo.

Party Poker 5.00/10.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP raises, 1 folds, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, 2 folds, MP caps, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (14.00 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP calls.

River: (11.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB.

stigmata · #2 10-31-2005, 07:10 AM

I want to be getting it HU when 3-betting medium pocket pairs. I think a cold-call would actually be better here -- you are pretty sure it's going to be 4 or 5 to the flop, so youv'e got the implied odds to hit the set, or you can raise the preflop raiser on a rag flop and push people out of the pot.

Other than that I like the way you played it.

Stinkybeaver · #3 10-31-2005, 07:30 AM

I'm suprised to see that an UTG with these stats ditch his hands preflop after your 3-bet. Had SB not called this which he won't do all that often and UTG still folded then it's indeed a good raise. I also like it if you think it'll prevent any calls from the blinds.

Say we only call then we are playing mainly for the set odds I think.

stigmata · #4 10-31-2005, 07:38 AM

That's the problem, that we expect UTG to call and its going to be at least 3-handed after a 3-bet. These guys are liable to peel with overcards and weak draws in a big pot too. I don't know, but it seems easier to play for set value (or overpair) in what is most likely going to be a multiway pot whatever we do. We can also protect our hand better by cold-calling and then raising the flop.

trentcroad · #5 10-31-2005, 09:39 AM

I agree with all the comments so far. I'd like the 3 bet alot more had UTG not been in there. But I like your postflop.

#6 10-31-2005, 09:41 AM

88 is definitely strong enough to 3bet. Definitely.

w_alloy · #7 10-31-2005, 10:47 AM

Your raise is for equity, to take control of the hand WITH POSITION, and to knock out players behind you. Playing this hand only for a set seems to me to be a significant error. You you an equity edge, you have postion, you can represent a stronger hand and win many A high flops... You play for trips when you only have implied odds, there are multiple opponents guarneteed to be in the pot, not with position, an equity edge, 3-5 players, and a chance to weed the field.

Hand 1: 38.5610 % [ 00.38 00.00 ] { 8s8h }
Hand 2: 25.3057 % [ 00.24 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-K2s, QJs-Q4s, JTs-J7s, T9s-T7s, 98s-97s, 87s-86s, 76s-75s, 65s, 54s, AKo-A2o, KQo-K3o, QJo-Q7o, JTo-J7o, T9o-T8o, 98o, 87o }
Hand 3: 36.1333 % [ 00.35 00.01 ] { AA-66, AKs-A5s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, AKo-A6o, KQo-KTo, QJo }

Roy6 · #8 10-31-2005, 11:15 AM

I also made an analysis. I put other hand ranges in, here are the results:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1 (very bad UTG): 19.5693 % [ 00.19 00.00 ] { 55-22, K6s-K2s, Q8s-Q6s, T8s-T6s, A5o-A2o, K8o-K5o, QTo-Q8o, JTo-J7o, T9o-T8o }

Hand 2: (my hand) 35.2694 % [ 00.35 00.00 ] { 88 }

Hand 3 (normal player with legit isolating hand against LAG): 45.1613 % [ 00.45 00.00 ] { AA-99, AKs-A9s, KQs-KTs, QJs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KJo }