a free showdown hand

[SippinSoma]

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The pot is so small it doesn't really matter does it?

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O Rly?

[Redd]

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With that board what can the button have where he doesn't have 5 outs or less? What does the raise to do for us? The pot is so small it doesn't really matter does it?

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The pot is 7SB after our call, so button would be getting implied odds to chase most 5-outers or almost even a gutshot. The raise is also for value since SB could have many hands that we're ahead of here.

I still don't understand why we're waiting until the turn here; so far, everyone's arguments for/against raising the turn are as follows:
The pros for a turn raise are that you may get value and you'll avoid giving button 5:1 odds. The cons are that you probably won't fold a better hand and you can't fold to a 3-bet.

But the arguments for/against raising the flop are the same thing:
The pros for a flop raise are that you may get value and you'll avoid giving button 7:1 odds. The cons are that you probably won't fold a better hand and you can't fold to a 3-bet.

So why not do this on a cheap street where it costs us less when we're 3-bet and gives zero cheap cards to button instead of one? Are you afraid that SB will 3-bet his (by the nature of the flop, weak) draw on the flop?

what overs are there??? you have a pair of aces. 5 outs max, and if the small blind has a hand, like the OP said he always does. They could be sharing outs such as a case queen, so it may be 4 or 3. Our kicker is garbage as well so we may be 2nd best. Cheap showdown sounds reasonable (bet two pair, straight on river). Like Brett said, at the game he was playing, the turn raise represents true strength and may be the only chance we get to have a better hand to fold.

[Borodog]

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So the actual cost is somewhen between 1 SB and 1 BB.

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Which is always > 1 sb.

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And always < 1 BB.

[brettbrettr]

Good post Redd. I need to think about this some. We're not done yet...

[WillMagic]

I'm not a fan.

First off - I don't know why it's such a big deal to fold the button. The pot is small and if he's behind he doesn't have much of a draw, and would be incorrect to call even one bet. So there's no need to raise to knock him out.

Against the SB - The only time the free showdown play will work differently than just calling down against him is if he has a hand that can three-bet the turn, in which case you'll be really unhappy that you raised.

It's not the size of the pot that makes this play wrong here. It's that there's no real upside and a reasonable downside.

Will

[QTip]

I've read the responses here, and really, I like just calling this all the way UI.

[brettbrettr]

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I've read the responses here, and really, I like just calling this all the way UI.

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Yeah, the more I think about it the more I agree. [censored].

[jason_t]

Call/call.

[Carmine]

I haven't read any responses but the first one or two and don't want to detour the discussion. I never make this PF limp. Is this standard for everyone.