Rules Question -- Misdeal?

[Big O]

Here are some rules from ROberts Rules

The following circumstances cause a misdeal, provided attention is called to the error before two players have acted on their hands. (If two players have acted in turn, the deal must be played to conclusion, as explained in rule #2): a) The first or second card of the hand has been dealt faceup or exposed through dealer error. b) Two or more cards have been exposed by the dealer. c) Two or more boxed cards improperly faced cards) are found. d) Two or more extra cards have been dealt in the starting hands of a game. e) An incorrect number of cards has been dealt to a player, except the top card may be dealt if it goes to the player in proper sequence. f) Any card has been dealt out of the proper sequence (except an exposed card may be replaced by the burncard). g) The button was out of position. h) The first card was dealt to the wrong position. i) Cards have been dealt to an empty seat or a player not entitled to a hand. j) A player has been dealt out who is entitled to a hand. This player must be present at the table or have posted a blind or ante.
Action is considered to occur in stud games when two players after the forced bet have acted on their hands. In button games, action is considered to occur when two players after the blinds have acted on their hands. Once action occurs, a misdeal can no longer be declared. The hand will be played to conclusion and no money will be returned to any player whose hand is fouled.

Procedure for an exposed card varies with the poker form, and is given in the section for each game. A card that is flashed by a dealer is treated as an exposed card. A card that is flashed by a player will play. To obtain a ruling on whether a card was exposed and should be replaced, a player should announce that the card was flashed or exposed before looking at it. A downcard dealt off the table is an exposed card.

[Rick Nebiolo]

this is the way it is down in the major card clubs in los angeles

~ rick

[DiceyPlay]

I agree that it's still random assuming there's no cheating, but doesn't it skew the integrity of the game? It's sort of like when the dealer moves the button two players instead of one. Now all the hands have shifted to the left by one (not to mention everyone who paid already gets shorted one hand) and that's wrong. Random, but wrong. I understand we're splitting hairs here, but it's easy enough to just make it right, isn't it?

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

No, it's not right, but it's also not that big a deal. Play or fold and move on.

[CountDuckula]

It seems as if you are looking at the deal as some sort of fated event; i.e., if something goes wrong, you didn't get the cards you were "supposed to get". That's not really a good way to look at any deal. What if the dealer shuffled one more or one fewer time than usual? That changes the cards you would have received, as well. The whole point of shuffling is to make the deal random; the only difference in the exposed card scenario is that you saw a random event that explicitly shifted the cards (and that everyone knows that nobody can possibly have the exposed card). As long as the deal is still random, that's really all that matters, and the idea that you didn't get the cards you were "supposed to get" just doesn't have any bearing on reality. You don't know what the other players got and they don't know what you got, any more than if the card hadn't been exposed. The cards you get are the cards you get, and you should play those instead of figuring out what would have happened if the card hadn't been exposed. If they're good cards, play them as you normally would; if not, don't.

-Mike

[youtalkfunny]

As CC said, the procedures are in place for a reason.

If I was called over to make a decision, and there has been no action, I'm going to "bring 'em back".

That's the technical answer.

The posters who say, "It's no big deal, don't be such a nit," have a point, too.

As a floorman, I say "misdeal".
As a player, I say, "Big deal!"