Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria - Page 6

pryor15 · #51 12-09-2005, 02:23 PM

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Marte is very clearly ready to get his shot at being a Major League starter. If there was no Lowell, it would be his job to lose.

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i think what you meant to say is that if there was no Marte, it would be Youk's job to lose. either that or you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

sublime · #52 12-09-2005, 02:23 PM

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I don't look at this deal as Renteria + $11 million for the prospect. I believe the Red Sox would have given Renteria for nothing to any team willing to take on his contract. It was a mistake that they wanted to erase.

Renteria was a free agent aquistion that "cost" the Sox nothing other than a draft pick. Since he wasn't playing anywhere near to his contract his "value" to the Sox was zero, maybe even less than zero.

So I look at this trade as $11 million for the prospect. Is the Atlanta Braves top prospect worth $11 million? I really don't know as there is no precedent for teams selling their top prospects that I know of.

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like you said earlier, its 8million as there is virtually no chance in hell renteria would be worth picking up the option on at the rate he was going.

it takes a player 6 FULL seasons of MLB service before they become free agents. so if we use the 11 million figure, then they are basically adding 1.8m each year to martes salary (which starts at 325k if i am correct?). so lets say for arguments sake that with the added 1.8m, he will be paid an average of 3m over the next 6 years. the red are gambling that he will produce like rolen, yet be paid like muellar. if he produces like muellar, then he gets paid like muellar. a good calculated risk IMO. use the 8m figure and it becomes even sweeter.

EDIT: from anotehr board:

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Sublime, the $3 million buyout is included in the $11 million that the Sox are paying based on my understanding. The $11 million paid to Atlanta becomes $8 million paid if Renteria's option for 2009 is exercised.

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rwperu34 · #53 12-09-2005, 02:44 PM

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defensively, yes. his offense is a MAJOR question mark though. again, moving to 1B is something older players do ALL THE TIME. the red sox can also afford to sit lowell and use him as a backup.

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32 is old now? His offense is a question mark. But looking at his OPS+ starting with 2005 and moving back: 77, 127, 132, 116, 106, 108. Which year looks like the fluke? Based on the stats, there is a very good chance Lowell is average or better offensively in 2006. I'd say his chance in 2006 is better than Marte.

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how so? the value of the beckett deal is josh beckett. mike lowell HAD to be taken, or there would be no deal.

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Mike Lowells salary had to be taken, not Mike Lowell. If you look at Mike Lowell as a $x player, he adds value. But the real value lost is going from Renteria to Alex Cora. The Red Sox got better (for 2006) when they picked up Beckett and Lowell, and they got worse when they traded Renteria.

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renteria was overpaid on his current contract.

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Furcal and Renteria have very similar value. Furcal makes $13M/yr. Renteria is worth $10M/yr.

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whats going to stop thge red sox from either signing an alex gonzalez or just going with joey cora and pedroia? lol, they certainly dont need the offense.

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Signing Alex Gonzalez would be a good move for the team. How much is he asking for? I would hope it's nowhere near $6M/yr. Pedroia could be interesting. Didn't he play second last year though?

sublime · #54 12-09-2005, 02:57 PM

32 is old now? His offense is a question mark. But looking at his OPS+ starting with 2005 and moving back: 77, 127, 132, 116, 106, 108. Which year looks like the fluke? Based on the stats, there is a very good chance Lowell is average or better offensively in 2006. I'd say his chance in 2006 is better than Marte.

old(er). and if moving him to 1b is what it takes to get marte AB's then i dotn see what the big deal is. again, i dont think lowell is useless just more flexible to move due to his maturity.

ike Lowells salary had to be taken, not Mike Lowell. If you look at Mike Lowell as a $x player, he adds value. But the real value lost is going from Renteria to Alex Cora. The Red Sox got better (for 2006) when they picked up Beckett and Lowell, and they got worse when they traded Renteria.

i can agree with the got worse for 2006 with THIS deal statement *if* marte spends the year in the minors. if he plays and has a ROY season, then of course thats not true.

however, its also a short term view. as the sox are constructed TODAY (if damn resings, cora/pedroia play SS) they are the favorites to win the AL east. renteria sucked last year and they finished tied and they have gained more this offseason then lost.

i think they view marte as having the most value in 07-10, but who knows? its still not even january.

Signing Alex Gonzalez would be a good move for the team. How much is he asking for? I would hope it's nowhere near $6M/yr. Pedroia could be interesting. Didn't he play second last year though?

yes, but played SS every year before that (defensive player of the year at ASU as SS)

fwiw, i can see your argument in this case (even though I dont agree with it) and dont take my rudeness personally please [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

rwperu34 · #55 12-09-2005, 03:14 PM

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dont take my rudeness personally please

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If you can ramp up the rudeness a little more, you'll start to approach the average rudeness of my friends (with regards to stuff like this).

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yes, but played SS every year before that (defensive player of the year at ASU as SS)

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I seem to remember scouts being down on his D when he was drafted. I can't envsion any other reason he would be drafted 64 spots after Matt Bush and 13 after Brian Bixler.

Jack of Arcades · #56 12-09-2005, 04:48 PM

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I agree, by themselves average and strikeouts are very poor measures of value. But, if two players have the exact same OBP and SLG in the exact same environment, the player who hits for a higher average is a much more valuble commodity. If they hit for the same average, the player who strikes out less will be more valuble. So they are important, and certianly not irrelevant.

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Actually, this is wrong. The extra base hits that make up for all te singles are worth ever-so-slightly more. We're talking miniscule difference, like 3 runs over 600 PA.