QQ vs uber fish

[winky51]

Uberfish #1 is 45/4%/.7 and UTG
Uberfish #2 is 36/2%/.5 and UTG+1


UTG raises, UTG+1 cold calls, Hero reraises (QQ), all fold to UTG which CAPS, UTG+1 cold calls again, Hero calls

Flop K 6 2 rainbow. 13.5 BB

UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 calls cold, hero??????

Hero smelled something fishy about this check raise.

[SnglMaltScotch]

I think that you are actually getting the odds to call here even if you are behind. If I read this right, there are now 18sb in the pot and it is 1 to call. You are probably stuck to 2 outs with your Qs. IMO, UTG is not C/R with KK here and I can't imagine that even Uberfish don't re-raise KK at UTG+1 so I feel that we are pretty safe from KK. I put UTG on AA or AK and UTG+1 on 99-JJ.

Call the flop and fold the turn UI.

Thought/Comments/Flames

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't imagine that even Uberfish don't re-raise KK at UTG+1 so ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I see this kind of thing not infrequently. People don't like to raise pre-flop and like to 3-bet even less. The thrill of trapping is what draws them to the game. I am not suggesting that UTG+1 has KK, but I would not eliminate it as a possibility.

That said, getting 18-1 closing the action, this is an easy call.

[element00]

UTG has a 4% PFR? and raised UTG and capped? So that puts his hand range to AK/KK/AA IMHO(I could be off but I doubt it).

you also got another guy in there getting these odds, you can't fold, see the turn for sure. CR could mean AK/AA(KK doubtful for villian #1 why CR flop unless he thinks he can double CR you or some fish BS.)

I've been up for many hours so i have no idea if this post makes sense or if it's of any help it's just repeating what's been said I'm sure.

[element00]

Ahhh now I remember the point I was getting to.

Check the flop. Reasoning? What do you beat here? Hero is probably almost not ever going to cap with JJ as he is a 41/4, which means he probably does not like jacks(most of those type complain about how bad jacks suck and how they lose).

+ You have cold caller, who could have something like AK/KQs etc.

Check and take the free card. But with what went on, you gotta call.

[winky51]

UTG gad TT UTG+1 had A6o ugh!

I did call the flop UTG bet again and I folded.

[W. Deranged]

Dr. Macallan:

This type of opponent might check-raise KK. In fact, KK maybe is the only hand they would check-raise. Maybe not. Who knows. Players who are big fish do not have thought processes that are rational/consistent enough to make such assertive statements about their possible hands. KK is in villain's range, and in my opinion needs no more discounting than other hands like AA or AK. In fact I think it's considerably more likely (relative to its Bayesian distribution) than hands like A6 or 77.

In my opinion, if we are calling on the flop it is to flop a set and to fold on the turn if we proceed any further in the hand. 18-1 is not good enough odds to strictly try to flop a set, but we need a very small amount of implied odds to make the call correct. I think KK should be considered, so ultimately I think the decision to call on the flop is basically neutral and matters very little ultimately.

Putting in any more bets on the turn unless it's checked to us and/or we improve is a consistent mistake, though.

[crunchy1]

Fold.... and these Villians are FAR from "uber".

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold.... and these Villians are FAR from "uber".

[/ QUOTE ]
I commented w/o looking at the pot size - I can see a pot-odds-based call here. Would anyone have this decision swayed to a fold if Villian's WSD%/W$SD% stats were right? What would they need to be for you to fold the flop?

[SnglMaltScotch]

There is nothing that could change that would change this to a fold. 18-1 closing the action is enough regardless of stats.