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  #1  
Old 12-23-2005, 11:45 AM
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Default $5+1: What to do with these people.

This is very early in the tournament.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

SB (t785)
BB (t670)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t1300)
UTG+2 (t715)
Hero (t720)
MP2 (t465)
MP3 (t690)
CO (t935)
Button (t920)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises to t85</font>, Hero calls t85, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls t85, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (t280) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets t65</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ???</font>
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2005, 11:49 AM
bluefeet bluefeet is offline
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Default Re: $5+1: What to do with these people.


Too steep a price to pay PF even with a good shot of having position. Overcards and a c-bet are shutting you out on a huge number of flops. Maybe worse yet is when you flop unders and still face a stiff c-bet.

Anyway...I'm not raising here yet. About as safe a board as you could get. An over would be even better of course, giving UTG or Button a reason to pounce. Still, I'm just calling. With any luck Button will find weakness in this lead and come over top. We're probably getting the rest of the chips in on any turn - with or without their help.
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2005, 11:54 AM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default Re: $5+1: What to do with these people.

Agree with bluefeet about the pre-flop call.

But I'll go ahead and raise that flop. Slowplaying on a flop like that is just asking for trouble. It's a 5+1, so these guys have to put on a wider range.

Nope, I say raise this to 150, at least make someone pay to hit an inside straight. More often than not, you're going to get a caller even after raising. Most likely UTG, who will still be chasing his overs.

*This is a 5+1 after all, raising with the best hand is usually the way to go.*
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2005, 11:59 AM
bluefeet bluefeet is offline
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Default Re: $5+1: What to do with these people.

I don't disagree with raising. Maybe for a different reason though. Comparing the hands that are filling this straight with the hands that call the PF raise, I don't think giving the turn is terribly risky. But I DO agree that this is probably a good example of where fast-playing is the best slow-play. You're right -- overs will call the raise quite often. Better yet we might be "falling" for UTG+2's AA/KK trap here [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] By taking his bait, we stand a decent chance of getting them in here on the flop.

&lt;- Changing answer to "make it 200ish to go"
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: $5+1: What to do with these people.

So, even though I may have the best hand pre-flop, you believe this is an incorrect call because of the fear of over cards coupled with a continuation bet? I hear that argument, but this doesn't seem to be screaming "Fold!" Isn't the flop more likely to show cards under T than higher? Though I do agree that the 6BB raise is a little high.

I honestly was struck dumb by this flop for a second. It looks so safe, so it seems a decent raise is appropriate. However, since it's so seemingly safe, slow playing this could give me some extra cash, especially if an over comes. But could he have JQ? That doesnt seem to make sense with the preflop raise, but I have to make it incorrect for someone with a straight draw, right? So slowplaying could do some major damage to me and possibly not pay off as much as opposed to me just making a raise of about 150-180 ... Interesting ...
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:20 PM
RobGW RobGW is offline
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Default Re: $5+1: What to do with these people.

There is no reason to slowplay at the $5 tables. They will usually call anyways with overcards, gut shots, or even a small pair. Charge them right away.
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  #7  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:25 PM
11t 11t is offline
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Default Re: $5+1: What to do with these people.

Re-raise him 3/4 to the pot.

I would say try never slow playing for a few months. You'll be surprised at your results.
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  #8  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:27 PM
11t 11t is offline
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Default Re: $5+1: What to do with these people.

I would say this board is pretty coordinated. Any 7,8 or jack and you could easily have let your hand get corrupted.

I agree, calling PF is a mistake in the PP tournaments.
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  #9  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:34 PM
mosdef mosdef is offline
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Default Re: $5+1: What to do with these people.

[ QUOTE ]
So, even though I may have the best hand pre-flop, you believe this is an incorrect call because of the fear of over cards coupled with a continuation bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that your hand is the best hand preflop has virtually no meaning unless you get all the money in preflop, which you don't want at this stage of the tournament. You are paying over 1/10th of your stack here preflop, and you need virtually a perfect flop to continue with the hand. The majority of the time the flop will contain at least one overcard, and your opponent(s) will bet often, whether he has hit the flop or not, and you will need to drop the hand. Furthermore, at the 5+1s you can expect more preflop callers behind you because opponents are loose as hell. Which means that almost all of the flops with an overcard will hit somebody. So you are stuck playing your TT for set value, and you can't call a big raise preflop on that basis.
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  #10  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: $5+1: What to do with these people.

Flop: (t280) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets t65</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t350</font>, Button folds, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: t695

As soon as I bet this much, I wanted to kinda kick myself. I think apprx. 180 would have been a good amount to raise so that he would make a mistake with a draw, grabbing at nothing with an overcard or two, or his higher pocket pair.

About the pre-flop argument. Would you agree to a call with AQo or AJo as opposed to my TT? And if so (I assume you would with the AQ, but not with the AJ), would this be done (I'm assuming you mean the lower limit SNG's) just because you hold two overcards?
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