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  #1  
Old 09-29-2005, 04:41 PM
Unoriginalname Unoriginalname is offline
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Default Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

I've been getting frustrated with my mediocrity as of late. After about 1500 22 party STTs, I have about an 11% ROI. I really want to reach a 20% longterm ROI at the 22s. I know my game isn't perfect, but it's hard for me to even fathom how some people are pulling a 20% ROI at this level. I'm having trouble finding another 9% ROI in leaks, but I'm not going to give up. I feel like my bubble play is pretty solid, although I'm sure not perfect. My ITM I think could use some work. I know my levels 1-3 could use some work, as I fold pretty much every hand except AA-QQ, AK, AQ, and pocket pairs.

How much ROI do you think (ballpark figure) I am missing out on playing this tight so early? Is there really, say, 5% ROI hidden in these early levels I am passing up? Can any successful higher stakes players and/or players at the 22s (with a high longterm ROI) give me any pointers for these levels? I'm not asking for you to outline an entire strategy that I can follow ABC style, I know that's not possible. I could just use a point in the right direction. Should I be raising more with hands like AJ, AT, KQ from decent position? Should I be playing more hands like JTs, or KJ that were usually auto folds for me? I feel like my postflop play is decent atleast.

How did you learn how to play the early levels of STTs?

What should I be doing to improve this part of my game?

Was this skillset just something that came naturally to you?

What differences should I keep in mind between playing a regular ring NL game and a STT in early levels?

I've tried several searches and there's just almost no talk about how to play early levels in this forum. Almost every question is about middle/late game and about good pushes and calls.
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  #2  
Old 09-29-2005, 04:57 PM
FakeKramer FakeKramer is offline
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Location: Indiana
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Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

Yea I've played 250 of the $20s so far with an ROI of 12%. I really don't see a whole ton of things I could do to make my ROI to up another 8%. Me thinks 20% in the $20s isn't sustainable over thousands of SNGs.
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  #3  
Old 09-29-2005, 05:03 PM
Sabrazack Sabrazack is offline
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Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

I feel the EXACT same way. I know im not playing perfectly since my ROI sucks. But i have NO idea what ot change, whenever i post a hand everyone seems to agree with what i did [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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  #4  
Old 09-29-2005, 05:07 PM
Hornacek Hornacek is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
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Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

Hmm... post some hands. Not just of the ones where you bust out, but ones where you have premium hands. While one leak could be your losing hands, another could be not extracting enough chips out with your good hands.

20%+ ROI is attainable, as I have 20%+ ROI at the $33s for over 2 years now. Others do too. Post results, and we'll try to discuss for you.
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  #5  
Old 09-29-2005, 05:07 PM
The Don The Don is offline
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Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

Here are my suggestions...
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  #6  
Old 09-29-2005, 05:13 PM
stanzee stanzee is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 27
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

[ QUOTE ]
I've been getting frustrated with my mediocrity as of late. After about 1500 22 party STTs, I have about an 11% ROI. I really want to reach a 20% longterm ROI at the 22s. I know my game isn't perfect, but it's hard for me to even fathom how some people are pulling a 20% ROI at this level. I'm having trouble finding another 9% ROI in leaks, but I'm not going to give up. I feel like my bubble play is pretty solid, although I'm sure not perfect. My ITM I think could use some work. I know my levels 1-3 could use some work, as I fold pretty much every hand except AA-QQ, AK, AQ, and pocket pairs.

How much ROI do you think (ballpark figure) I am missing out on playing this tight so early? Is there really, say, 5% ROI hidden in these early levels I am passing up? Can any successful higher stakes players and/or players at the 22s (with a high longterm ROI) give me any pointers for these levels? I'm not asking for you to outline an entire strategy that I can follow ABC style, I know that's not possible. I could just use a point in the right direction. Should I be raising more with hands like AJ, AT, KQ from decent position? Should I be playing more hands like JTs, or KJ that were usually auto folds for me? I feel like my postflop play is decent atleast.

How did you learn how to play the early levels of STTs?

What should I be doing to improve this part of my game?

Was this skillset just something that came naturally to you?

What differences should I keep in mind between playing a regular ring NL game and a STT in early levels?

I've tried several searches and there's just almost no talk about how to play early levels in this forum. Almost every question is about middle/late game and about good pushes and calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

My game has become really fine tuned the last 1000 SnGs and i've hit a 30%ROI 46%ITM at the 20s (4 tabling). I've since moved up, although sometimes still play the 20's at lunch.

People will say my stats are bull, but they are true and include a 20, 27, and 35 buy-in downswing. I rarely make mistakes these days, and am extremely talented at spotting other players "tendencies" even when 4 tabling which definitely boosts the old ROI. I think these stats are the max you can hope to achieve (i'd be surprised if anyone could beat these).

To answer your question on early game hand selection- if you are not a good player post flop player(like most people on this forum) then you should probably stay ultra tight, but say you're the sort of player who can play JT on the flop, and have a good feel of when you have the best hand or when you KNOW your beaten even if you hit the your J or T and can still lay down your hand, then playing slightly looser preflop is definitely +ve. This is the basis of what has made me the monster of a player i am now. I can play the early mid and late game almost optimally.
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  #7  
Old 09-29-2005, 05:14 PM
splashpot splashpot is offline
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Location: Needham, MA
Posts: 425
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

I laugh everytime I read something this guy writes.
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  #8  
Old 09-29-2005, 05:57 PM
Bill Poker Bill Poker is offline
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Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

if he does have 30%ROI 46%ITM at the 20s (4 tabling) over 1000 sngs, he is either on a huge heater, or very good at this game (at least $20+2).

[ QUOTE ]
I laugh everytime I read something this guy writes.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #9  
Old 09-29-2005, 06:13 PM
Unoriginalname Unoriginalname is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 117
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

Thanks for the tips. I'm going to really work hard on improving my levels 1-3. Your post has convinced me that if I am ever going to reach my STT goals, I need to learn how to play more hands than the top 4 and pocket pairs.

You have no idea how insanely jealous I am of that 1000 game sample. Partly because of the amount of money you've made (more than I've made in 1500 SNGs) and partly because of your lack of swings.
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  #10  
Old 09-29-2005, 06:35 PM
raptor517 raptor517 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

[ QUOTE ]
Yea I've played 250 of the $20s so far with an ROI of 12%. I really don't see a whole ton of things I could do to make my ROI to up another 8%. Me thinks 20% in the $20s isn't sustainable over thousands of SNGs.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, if you dont think 20% is doable in the 22s, how do you expect to do anything but ever lose in the 55s on up? 20% in the 22s is for SURE doable. like, not even close.. 4-8 tabling.. i can see 30%ish.. holla
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