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  #31  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:47 PM
Kurn, son of Mogh Kurn, son of Mogh is offline
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Location: Cranston, RI
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Default Re: The last stand of the American Republic....

Why would 2 lawyers from the Reagan and Bush 41 administrations "unlikely" sources?
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  #32  
Old 12-30-2005, 12:48 PM
MtSmalls MtSmalls is offline
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Default Re: The last stand of the American Republic....

[ QUOTE ]
Please explain, in detail, how any of your civil rights have been violated. Note that I'm not talking about "our" civil rights. I'm talking about YOUR civil rights.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is entirely the point. Its not about whether any of MY rights have been violated, personally. If the rights of one can be violated, the rights of ALL can be violated. (First they came for the gypsies, then the homosexuals...). The right of American citizens not to be detained without recourse to due process and the legal system has already been violated. The right of unreasonable search and seizure has been violated. (and NO Clinton and Carter did it within the rules of FISA, not by fiat).

Less than 10 years ago, half of this country was up in arms, saying no President was above the law. The rule of law applies to everyone, in reference to the Clinton impeachment over perjury. But this adminstration has thrown two elements of the Bill of Rights out the window, is hiding a traitor who outed, or orchestrated the outing of, a CIA agent, and yet those same people are not only quiet about these laws being broken, but are bending over backwards to offer excuses for these actions.

While much of the sloganeering and posturing by both sides has been overly strident, there are some simple truths here learned by every child who makes it through basic Civics classes. Our civil rights are being slowly degraded. If we don't stand up for them now, where will we be in five years? 10 years? 20 years?
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  #33  
Old 12-30-2005, 01:02 PM
tylerdurden tylerdurden is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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Default Re: The last stand of the American Republic....

[ QUOTE ]
Pvn,

Citing a Tampa Bay Online story about a felon who can no longer vote because of a properly enforced law doesn't in any way whatsoever qualify the statement "If you live in Florida, you have no right to vote".

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not addressing the "you have no right to vote" statement, since I didn't make it. I am addressing your statement that there's no citations of actual people being denied their vote.

The felon that is the focus of the story isn't the part I was citing.

I'm not sure what kind of "proof" will satisfy you. There are lawsuit settlements of public record where various state agencies have *admitted* that people were wrongfully removed.
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  #34  
Old 12-30-2005, 02:23 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Whitewater, WI
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Default Re: The last stand of the American Republic....

[ QUOTE ]
Why would 2 lawyers from the Reagan and Bush 41 administrations "unlikely" sources?

[/ QUOTE ]
Source = New York Times
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  #35  
Old 12-30-2005, 02:57 PM
Guest
 
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Default Re: The last stand of the American Republic....

[ QUOTE ]
I am addressing your statement that there's no citations of actual people being denied their vote.


[/ QUOTE ]

I made no such statement. I expect more from you.

I requested specific credible evidence to qualify the statement "If you live in Florida or if you use a diebold voting machine, you have no right to vote for President".
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  #36  
Old 12-30-2005, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: The last stand of the American Republic....

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keep one thing in mind, the phone numbers were found in cofiscated computers, phones and other devices seized from terrorists.

Had the President NOT acted on the material obtained from terrorists and there WAS an attack that killed friends, family or other Americans would you be outraged that he didn't act?


[/ QUOTE ]

This is not the problem that anyone has. The use of wire taps is not the issue- the use of wire taps without judicial oversight is the issue. All the agency (whatever agency it was) had to do was go to a judge, and tell that judge what they wanted to do. This has been done a thousand times before. Why did Bush feel that he had the authority to ignore standard procedure in these cases (since it was his order that allowed them to circumvent it).

[/ QUOTE ]

During wartime, (which we are in under the authorization of congress) as Commander in Chief he has authority to do so. As to your question, I can imagine that it had something to do with a concern for the information getting out.

As far as oversight goes, the senate intelligence committee knew about it.

Who did Clinton get permission from to use satellites to spy on the folks out west?


"Gun control is being able to hit your target"
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  #37  
Old 12-30-2005, 03:24 PM
Meech Meech is offline
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Default Re: The last stand of the American Republic....

[ QUOTE ]
As far as oversight goes, the senate intelligence committee knew about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes me feel much better. The senate intelligence committee (oxymoron?) was informed that the president authorized warrantless wiretaps on an unspecified number of instances.

Yeah, civil liberties are being protected. Thank God (or is it PC to thank the intelligent designer these days?)
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  #38  
Old 12-30-2005, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: The last stand of the American Republic....

[ QUOTE ]
Just because its on the internet doesnt make it true.

More people Voted for Al Gore (including in Florida), but George's brother made sure he won. Pretty simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently we have a conspiracy theorist on the boards.

Are you aware that the New York Crimes, Atlanta Journal Constipation and several other media sources conducted a recount on their own and came up with the same results?
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  #39  
Old 12-30-2005, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: The last stand of the American Republic....

Each one of those talking points has been throughly de-bunked.

We are not at war.

The members of the intel committee were not allowed to say anything about it, althought several wrote letters of protest, which are classifed.

Clinton's only crime was lying about getting head.
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  #40  
Old 12-30-2005, 04:46 PM
CORed CORed is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 273
Default Re: The last stand of the American Republic....

[ QUOTE ]
Please explain, in detail, how any of your civil rights have been violated. Note that I'm not talking about "our" civil rights. I'm talking about YOUR civil rights. What "right" did you have before Dubya's first term began that you do not have anymore?

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

When they came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.


[/ QUOTE ]
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