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  #21  
Old 09-29-2005, 08:05 PM
nate_king1 nate_king1 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Getting destoryed at the 11s.
Posts: 290
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

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I'm in the same boat as all the other whining $22ers, this thread is good but we still don't have much advice other than that it IS possible. Can we get anything else outta you guys?

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First things first, I haven't replied in a while because I was vactioning in Peru for the last 10 days. Good time, cheap down there. Average person makes $200/Month, made me think about my $200 swings I have.

I have about 15% ROI at the 22s, lame. I want to be as good as "the_don" where I can pull $5/SNG and do it 8-Tabling. That would be a nice hourlyrate I can enjoy. But we need more help from you 20%+errs, not just. Let me see on of your handhistories. Take us threw a while SNG tourny, lets hear some more tips, etc.


LATER...


January 1st my goal is to be 14xTabling the 22s for $100/Hour or be 8xTabling 33s for $80/Hour. I hope to get there.....
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  #22  
Old 09-29-2005, 08:52 PM
lorinda lorinda is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: England
Posts: 2,478
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

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I'm in the same boat as all the other whining $22ers, this thread is good but we still don't have much advice other than that it IS possible. Can we get anything else outta you guys?

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The difference between 15% and 25% is probably experience.

There are a lot of people who seem to believe that there is a magic formula. There isn't. When you start playing reasonably on the bubble, and tight early in the game, this is the point where you started learning poker, not where you finished learning.

There's a game that I have been dying to post from the $11s from a few nights ago, but I'm not willing to post it with player names in (Not worried about protecting mine, I'm concerned about Party's data sharing policy). Basically it involved me folding everything apart from two hands. One AK and one steal, and the biggest pot I won was 100 chips or so.

I let myself get blinded away from a very early stage because I "knew" the signs of a SNG where I was going to get in the money if I just left them to it. I came third and was actually close to coming second.

I am confident that most people here would have gone out 4th or 5th a huge % of the time.

Is that because I'm particuarly great? No. It's because I've played poker for many years and had time for the brain to develop instincts about such matters.

If you're between 5% and 20% in your games, you are being paid to learn and to gain experience. It doesn't neccessarily mean there are huge holes in your understanding, but you are not going to master poker overnight.

Lori
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  #23  
Old 09-29-2005, 09:19 PM
The Don The Don is offline
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Location: Baltimore
Posts: 399
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

Very true. The most important aspect of the bubble is NOT you hole cards... it is the nature of the other players and their stack sizes. Sometimes I am in a position where I am playing for first and sometimes I am in a position where I am playing for ITM.
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  #24  
Old 09-30-2005, 10:41 AM
Unoriginalname Unoriginalname is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 117
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

I joined this forum in April but I didn't start getting serious about poker until June. So I've only really been playing approximately 3-4 months. I guess I'm going to need some patience. I just want to make sure I don't go about poker the wrong way and stop actively learning the game. I don't want to still be an 11% player if I'm still seriously playing in a year.
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  #25  
Old 09-30-2005, 11:30 AM
helpmeout helpmeout is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 991
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

The difference between the good players and mostly the duds on this forum is the ability to act on things like table dynamics and your opponents tendencies.

Playing like a rock and generally following the mostly beginner advice on here will not turn you into a big winner.

If the blinds are generally not calling raises then steal blinds. If that guy in seat X is raising light and folding to reraises then reraise him.

You gotta pay attention to the games and make adjustments where you see fit.
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  #26  
Old 09-30-2005, 12:14 PM
vinyard vinyard is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 202
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

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2 Years could be 100 SnG's. How many is this over? I feel like until I see soemone with >20% ROI over 10,000 SnG's I will not think that it is possible. But I am probably just a loser in denial.

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Not to be a pr1ck but the only sentence that has any resmeblance of truth to it is the last one. There are two reasons that nobody posts their 25% ROI reults over 10000 22s or 33s. First, and most obviously, most people who are beating either game at that rate typically move up. Second, their are some rather +EV implications of not posting those results.

There is some part of me that is tempted to spend the next 4-5 months 8 tabling the 33s at 24% until hit 10000 SnGs just so that this issue is forever closed. If there were an easy way to prop bet (I am open to suggestions) this so that I wouldn't lose out on cash by not moving to the 55s I would probably do it.

** I think you could be the 33s at near 30% if you played most of your games at night. Don't get me wrong because I can't but I think a great player can do it. Sadly I am not in that group because my game has a ton of really big holes that I need to work on.
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  #27  
Old 09-30-2005, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

[ QUOTE ]
Very true. The most important aspect of the bubble is NOT you hole cards... it is the nature of the other players and their stack sizes. Sometimes I am in a position where I am playing for first and sometimes I am in a position where I am playing for ITM.

[/ QUOTE ]

The bubble is all about playing perfect ICM poker. Though I do agree that passing up SOME +EV plays is required.
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  #28  
Old 09-30-2005, 01:24 PM
Hornacek Hornacek is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 43
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

** I think you could be the 33s at near 30% if you played most of your games at night. Don't get me wrong because I can't but I think a great player can do it. Sadly I am not in that group because my game has a ton of really big holes that I need to work on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind my 20%+ ROI is played STRICTLY at night. I'm a trader during the days (8 am to 6 pm), with 1 hr commute each way. So I generally play ~12 games at night.
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  #29  
Old 09-30-2005, 01:33 PM
pineapple888 pineapple888 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 65
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

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Basically it involved me folding everything apart from two hands. One AK and one steal, and the biggest pot I won was 100 chips or so.


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I had one like this last night. Played one nice-sized pot, won it, then kept folding junk and playing my other tables. The next time I got any kind of hand, it was the bubble on Level 2. Two more busted on Level 3, I got second. Easiest money I ever made.
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  #30  
Old 09-30-2005, 02:08 PM
jeffraider jeffraider is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 27
Default Re: Can we get a discussion on early level play? 20% ROI at 22s?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the same boat as all the other whining $22ers, this thread is good but we still don't have much advice other than that it IS possible. Can we get anything else outta you guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference between 15% and 25% is probably experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I was at 9% ROI for my first 500 $22s, and 35% for my last 500 so you can see just how little a sample even 500 is. Granted, I did get better between those two samples for sure (Irie helped me plug all my huge leaks and turned me into a winning player, and I also picked up SNGPT after the first 500 and started to make nearly 100% good bubble pushes and folds. I think I make a bad push/fold about once a week at most now. I'm not playing perfect ICM or anything but I very rarely will give my opponents a big screwup in the late game.

I completely agree with Lorinda about the big difference being experience. I also think postflop play can add so much ROI for you, and that's something I've just been getting better at with experience and effort (and reading every single post by my postflop heros like Adanthar, Lacky, Unarmed, Irie, curtains, citanul, Raptor, Big Limpin', etc). I'm getting more chips in the middle stages than I've ever had before, picking up uncontested pots in spots that make sense to do it, and that's definitely helping.

Also, my $33 results are definitely heaterific. I was running at 40+% ROI until game 450ish and then I dropped all the way down to 24% so it's not like I'm the $33 master or anything, I've just been playing decently and running real good. I plan on sticking around the 800-chip games for a while so I'll let everyone know when I've got 2500+ games at the $33s. Hell, I'm playing the $22s right now just because I find them so comfortable. I should go back to the $33s but I keep withdrawing down to my $22 bankroll of 70 buyins.
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