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  #1  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:21 AM
bravos1 bravos1 is offline
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Default call 2 back with the 4th nuts?

Reads : BB is very loose and fairly passive, UTG+1 and Hijack came in one hand apart about 11-12 hands ago and both have played 8-9 of the hands with mild aggression (all aggression has been pre-flop for the most part for both of them). Both have showndown >75% of their hands so far each winning ~2 hands. UTG+1 called a turn raise and river bet w/ AK high with 4 people in to the end.

FullTilt $1/$2 (8 handed)
Hero dealt 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in SB
UTG+1 and Hijack limp, Hero completes, BB checks
<font color="blue">Worth completing at 7:1?</font>
Pot 4 SB (4 players)

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="red">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hijack calls, Hero calls, BB folds
<font color="blue">About as good of a flop I could hope for. Flush draw plus a "double" BDSD so about 11 outs or so. Probably should have led out, but should I c/r it when it gets back?</font>
Pot : 7 SB (3 players)

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Hijack checks
<font color="blue">Hmm, checked around suprised me a bit as I expected someone to have something here? I now only have my flush outs.</font>
Pot 3.5 BB (3 players)

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

<font color="red">Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hijack 3-bets</font>, Hero calls???, UTG+1 calls
Final Pot : 12.5 BB
<font color="blue">With me catching the 4th nuts I decided to lead out. I did not want the river to get checked through if they both had a baby pocket pair or something like 3-4th pair. Having to face 2 back really suprised me. Am I good here the ~22% of the time to call this? I know, the pot is small up until the 3 bet, but the numbers seemed right on all streets except for possibly the river call.</font>
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2005, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: call 2 back with the 4th nuts?

I would raise the flop, turn is fine, and call the river 2-bets to you. I would say you have the best hand more than 22% of the time here. UTG+1 could easily raise with the straight, hi-jacks 3-bet is a little worrisome, but I'm not folding the flush here, as either player might just be aggressive enough to raise/3-bet 2-pair, set, or straight.
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  #3  
Old 12-31-2005, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: call 2 back with the 4th nuts?

I'd lead out on the flop.

Calling two back definitely seems reasonable on this river, a lot of players go into auto-raise mode when they hit their straights. It's possible you are beaten by a higher flush, but it's not worrisome enough to merit folding.
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  #4  
Old 12-31-2005, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: call 2 back with the 4th nuts?

When you call this river, you played go0t.

Call the river and expect to win way more than 22%.
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  #5  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:43 PM
Eeegah Eeegah is offline
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Default Re: call 2 back with the 4th nuts?

I don't know why you folks want to lead or raise the flop. It's not for value unless all three call and we certainly have no expectation of that.
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Old 12-31-2005, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: call 2 back with the 4th nuts?

If you estimate that you have 35% equity on the flush draw, a flop lead would be for value (albeit a thin edge) if you got even 2 callers, which doesn't seem unreasonable on this board. The main reason for a flop lead, however, would be to avoid telegraphing the flush draw, which seems to carry some implied odds with it, as your opponents are more likely to call bets when you make your hand. I am not totally sure about my reasoning here, I'm just stating what I understood from a similar hand I posted a while back where I was told to lead a similar high-card flop with a non-nut flush draw.
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