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  #1  
Old 12-22-2005, 10:55 PM
Chaostracize Chaostracize is offline
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Default Question in Ciaffone\'s PL and NL book

I'm not positive if this has been posted here before, but I'm guessing it has; I want to come back to it briefly.

All important characters have "about a grand". You have 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB. It's a full table, and it's a 6-way unraised pot.

Flop comes 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Pot = 60.

SB leads for 60, you coldcall, 2 folds to "sound player" who limped in MP after one limper who raises to 170. Everyone, including SB fold to you.

Ciaffone strongly recommends a fold here. The argument he makes is that JJ-AA is raising preflop. 99-TT is raising more on the flop to shut out draws. And two pair is "remote".

No one here would fold here right? I almost can't even imagine folding this on the flop to a super nit. Is there anyone you can think of who'd you honestly fold this to one raise?

Edited to add: If this were a super nit, what is your plan for the hand?

Second edit to add: If the reasoning to raise so much with 99-TT is to knock out draws, wouldn't a set be more likely to do that since it will be more top heavy if a straight hits?

This question reeks of "look at what a good fold I made" instead of a constructive breakdown of a hand.
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2005, 10:59 PM
FoxwoodsFiend FoxwoodsFiend is offline
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Default Re: Question in Ciaffone\'s PL and NL book

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not positive if this has been posted here before, but I'm guessing it has; I want to come back to it briefly.

All important characters have "about a grand". You have 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB. It's a full table, and it's a 6-way unraised pot.

Flop comes 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Pot = 60.

SB leads for 60, you coldcall, 2 folds to "sound player" who limped in MP after one limper who raises to 170. Everyone, including SB fold to you.

Ciaffone strongly recommends a fold here. The argument he makes is that JJ-AA is raising preflop. 99-TT is raising more on the flop to shut out draws. And two pair is "remote".

No one here would fold here right? I almost can't even imagine folding this on the flop to a super nit. Is there anyone you can think of who'd you honestly fold this to one raise?

Edite to add: If this were a super nit, what is your plan for the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know the date of the publication, but my guess is that these days people tend to bluff oesd more often now than they did when this book came out.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:01 PM
Chaostracize Chaostracize is offline
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Default Re: Question in Ciaffone\'s PL and NL book

97.
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:03 PM
FoxwoodsFiend FoxwoodsFiend is offline
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Default Re: Question in Ciaffone\'s PL and NL book

[ QUOTE ]
97.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then yeah, definitely more semi-bluffing these days. I know because when I was 13, me and my friends never really got that aggressive with draws.
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:12 PM
Chaostracize Chaostracize is offline
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Default Re: Question in Ciaffone\'s PL and NL book

If we take "sound" to mean "nit" can we assume that they won't be raising a draw here?
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:16 PM
FoxwoodsFiend FoxwoodsFiend is offline
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Default Re: Question in Ciaffone\'s PL and NL book

[ QUOTE ]
If we take "sound" to mean "nit" can we assume that they won't be raising a draw here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. But we can also assume that it's possible they don't like raising with TT or JJ because "overcards always come." If they're really a nit, you can put some more $$$ in there and then comfortably fold to an all-in
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:19 PM
Chaostracize Chaostracize is offline
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Default Re: Question in Ciaffone\'s PL and NL book

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'm glad we had this talk.
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:40 PM
HiatusOver HiatusOver is offline
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Default Re: Question in Ciaffone\'s PL and NL book

[ QUOTE ]
"97"

Then yeah, definitely more semi-bluffing these days. I know because when I was 13, me and my friends never really got that aggressive with draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could see folding bottom set here back in 1997, but only because I would have been too stoned back then to realize I flopped a set anyways.
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:47 PM
shaniac shaniac is offline
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Default Re: Question in Ciaffone\'s PL and NL book

[ QUOTE ]
I could see folding bottom set here back in 1997, but only because I would have been too stoned back then to realize I flopped a set anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the sets they have today are WAY stronger than they were back in '97, so it all makes sense.
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  #10  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:07 AM
RikaKazak RikaKazak is offline
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Default Re: Question in Ciaffone\'s PL and NL book

6 max, I just find it hard to fold. Myabe it's cause we're more aggressive now days. But I think you see 99-TT oesd and enough to call and ck raise all in on turn, or lead turn. Now if the stacks were bigger, then I would play it differently. But for 100 bb's I find this hard to fold in 6 max.
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