Top pair mess in the 22s

bones · #1 09-06-2005, 03:21 AM

Nothing exceptional about the villian.

Alternate lines?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

BB (t1195)
UTG (t670)
UTG+1 (t1070)
MP1 (t405)
MP2 (t535)
MP3 (t1550)
CO (t770)
Hero (t1105)
SB (t700)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 calls t30, 1 fold, Hero calls t30, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t120) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets t100, SB calls t100, BB folds, MP3 folds.

Turn: (t320) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t125, Hero calls t125.

River: (t570) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t225, Hero calls t225.

Final Pot: t1020

iggy · #2 09-06-2005, 03:48 AM

I probably bet less on the flop (if any) and drop the turn. I'm never a fan of a ten (or jack for that matter) kicker this early in.

Without a flush draw or two pair, A10s just isn't strong enough for me to invest any real chips in level 2.

suited_ace · #3 09-06-2005, 04:31 AM

Fold PF.

Since you didn't, I'm not betting the flop. Check it too and see what happens.

... and since you bet the flop, fold the turn. You're slowly getting into this huge pot where you don't know where you stand, few things are worst than doing that in level 2.

curtains · #4 09-06-2005, 05:21 AM

Unpleasant situation. I strongly believe that playing the hand preflop is correct (and calling is fine). On the flop I would bet 75-100.

Betting 100 is fine because the board is reasonably coordinated, the downside is the pot gets a little more out of control when someone calls as opposed to having someone call a 75 chip bet. However most draws here will call whether you bet 75 or 100. Either bet is basically fine though.

On the turn it's very annoying, because you are playing against someone whom is probably a donkey, and they are betting barely 1/3rd of the pot. If they had such a strong hand they would usually check raise. I would call the turn and the river, but wouldn't be excited about it at all.

If my random $22 opponent felt the best way to trap me with his huge hand was to flat call on the flop and make a small bet on the turn as opposed to check raising the flop or turn, then congratulations to him, he tricked me.

unreal_nh · #5 09-06-2005, 06:25 AM

i fold this preflop everytime (early) to avoid this kind of situation.

#6 09-06-2005, 06:34 AM

I would have raised 4x BB preflop.
Everybody would then probably fold, if SB still had called you could have put him on a hand post-flop.

He probably flopped middle or top pair with the 3 kicker wich came of the turn or maybe J9.
If you had raised preflop and he let's you know that he has a good hand (A3 of J9 would have been folded after that raise) by calling your flop bet and after that betting the flop you get out.

I think he checked the flop with 2 pair because he's afraid you'll fold if he bet, after he called and the 3 comes of the turn he bets because he does not want you to draw to a possible backdoor flush.

Anyway, i think you played the hand pretty bad.
If you decide not to raise preflop, than bet the pot on the flop, don't save that 20 chips.
After he bets that little amount on the turn in comparison to the potsize, raise him (and not the minimal raise).
If he calls and checks to you at the river, check it also.
If he comes over the top, drop your hand.
But don't just call his bets!

Some people want to avoid this kind of situations early in the STT, if so, fold preflop, easy enough.
I don't mind playing these type of hands early, but if i feel my hand is weak or my opponent is stronger, i fold.

That's how I think about it, i'm curious to read more ideas about this hand.

Taraz · #7 09-06-2005, 06:38 AM

I would fold this preflop and probably bet a little less (t80 or so) on the flop if I decided to mix it up preflop. But given the way you played it . . .

This looks a lot like the villain has a Jack hi flush draw or some kind of set. I think calling down these smallish bets in that situation is alright, but I'd probably fold it to save chips.

tlow03 · #8 09-06-2005, 07:08 AM

I think the play is fine preflop. The fact that he bet into you on the turn makes me think that he hit a very strong hand and was afraid that you would check. So I would put him on a set or two pair on the turn (A-3?) and fold it despite the small size of his bet.

tigerite · #9 09-06-2005, 09:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Unpleasant situation. I strongly believe that playing the hand preflop is correct (and calling is fine). On the flop I would bet 75-100.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, you are on the button, and will have position for the rest of the hand, there is nothing at all wrong with calling here for t30 with ATs. Unless you can't play post flop of course.

[ QUOTE ]
Betting 100 is fine because the board is reasonably coordinated, the downside is the pot gets a little more out of control when someone calls as opposed to having someone call a 75 chip bet. However most draws here will call whether you bet 75 or 100. Either bet is basically fine though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, and also any smaller Ax will also call here. A check behind is okay, if you want to induce a bluff at a later stage, but probably better just to get money in the pot now when you've got the best hand the vast majority of the time.

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn it's very annoying, because you are playing against someone whom is probably a donkey, and they are betting barely 1/3rd of the pot. If they had such a strong hand they would usually check raise. I would call the turn and the river, but wouldn't be excited about it at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, although the river bet size is even more annoying, because he's probably picked up some jammy two-pair or other with his A now.

[ QUOTE ]
If my random $22 opponent felt the best way to trap me with his huge hand was to flat call on the flop and make a small bet on the turn as opposed to check raising the flop or turn, then congratulations to him, he tricked me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep - most won't play a big hand this way at all.