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#131
08-10-2005, 05:12 PM
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Re: RESULTS SHIP IT BWAHAHAH HOLLA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i found out that someone behind me was along for a draw, and i found that out very cheaply. [/ QUOTE ] If he had folded, do you still check/fold the turn? Assume all else the same. [/ QUOTE ] it depends.. one of those things really.. i cant say for sure unless i was at the table and it happened. holla 
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#132
08-10-2005, 05:39 PM
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Re: RESULTS SHIP IT BWAHAHAH HOLLA
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I was replying as I read, so I got a little redundant. Here's why I don't like a check raise here: 1. It may get checked through, which sucks on this board. There is a real chance of that since no one has showed any interest, and there could be a couple of non top pairs or gutshots etc. out there. 2. If you check raise a normal bet (T15 is just weak sause, if you can expect someone to bet that, then sure, c/r away) you are looking at putting t125ish into the pot. If villain comes over the top you have to let go and cost yourself t80 more than if you bet and let go to a raise. If you c/r and get called, now the pot is a lot bigger, and you are OOP with a marginal hand. Very tricky to play that going forward. Sure you may pick up the pot right there (and get a few extra chips in the process), but your raise is not going to really threaten a betters stack and he will have good odds and position to call. 3. (This is a style dependant one) I lead with a lot of hands here, so I am not really giving any real information away other than the flop didn't completely miss me. (I'm not leading with three opponents if I have air, so it does say I have at least a decent draw). [/ QUOTE ] 1. If it gets checked through you just got a pretty good idea of where you are for free. You probably have the others crushed, and this isn't a heavy draw board so a free card isn't that bad. 2. I wouldn't checkraise t125, more like t75 which will get action from hands weaker than yours and keep the pot small. 3. Anyone with working brain cells (which sadly sometimes doens't seem like everyone) knows that if you're leading into a 3 other people from the SB that you have at least an ace. [ QUOTE ] this thread is fun. holla [/ QUOTE ] couldn't agree more, this is a great discussion you've got going raptor.
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#133
08-10-2005, 06:45 PM
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Re: RESULTS SHIP IT BWAHAHAH HOLLA
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so basically fnord, you want to bet 45 and let everything come along with you while building a pot and not being able to protect your hand? not exactly the way i would want to play this. think of it as a limit hand. if you lead, you encourage calls from drawing hands. if u check raise, you knock out the str draw that ended up winning. thats as simple as i can make the argument. leading is probably the worst line to take. u get everything in there. actually, by checking and calling, you receive quite a bit of information. i found out that someone behind me was along for a draw, and i found that out very cheaply. by checking again on the turn, the original bettors continuation bet told me he had at LEAST a relatively strong holding, meaning at least an ace. now, my ace is quite good, and likely better than any ace he would have, however, in the 55s, a lot of people will slow down after getting ANY action wit ha weak ace, as they know their hand becomes extremely weaker the more multiway the pot is. as for leading, you bet 45, obv the str draw calls, then what happens if lp min raises? you cant actually fold if your logic was to lead into the field. he could be min raising with any number of hands. a weaker ace to see where hes at, a str draw to get a free turn card, etc. what is your plan on the turn if called in one spot? and two? you cant play poker on such a basic level. you have to look down the road as to what will happen on later streets. this thread is fun. holla [/ QUOTE ] If it goes call raise I have no problem folding. Often, that lead takes down the pot when no one has an ace or OESD. If I just get one call, I will bet 1/2 to 2/3 the pot on the turn to give draws the incorrect price to come along and check call blank rivers for a reasonable amount. Betting gets out a lot of crappy little hands that can pass you on the turn but wont call a bet on the flop. You have the best hand often here, but you are not going to win a lot with it, so I will try to pick up the small pot and move on. If I get called in two spots I proceed with caustion.
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#134
08-10-2005, 07:20 PM
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Re: RESULTS SHIP IT BWAHAHAH HOLLA
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1. If it gets checked through you just got a pretty good idea of where you are for free. You probably have the others crushed, and this isn't a heavy draw board so a free card isn't that bad. 2. I wouldn't checkraise t125, more like t75 which will get action from hands weaker than yours and keep the pot small. 3. Anyone with working brain cells (which sadly sometimes doens't seem like everyone) knows that if you're leading into a 3 other people from the SB that you have at least an ace. [ QUOTE ] this thread is fun. holla [/ QUOTE ] couldn't agree more, this is a great discussion you've got going raptor. [/ QUOTE ] 1. This is exactly the type of board that hits limpers with draws and middle/bottom pair. Every time you lead the turn after it is checked through and take down the pot uncontested you would have taken it down on the flop. Some of the times you would have taken it down on the flop you will end up second best on the turn and may be raised off your hand or smooth called. 2. I don't think you are going to get a whole lot of action from weaker hands, and that does not keep the pot that small. Are you planning on leading the turn? If so for how much? Position is so crucial in controlling pot size and you don't have it here. 3. Actually, what I am personally saying when I lead that flop is I have at least an ace or an OESD. I will lead with draws some for deception. (Also, as an aside, I often fold OESD and flush draws on the flop if I don't think I will get paid off if I hit and I dont have the direct odds to call.) But even if I am saying "I have at least an Ace", so what? I am not looking to deceive anyone and win a big pot here, I just want to take down the small pot and move on. If someone plays back, they know I have AT LEAST an ace, probably with a good kicker, so they either have a good to great hand or are pretty damn ballsy and will earn the pot from me. If someone semi bluffs me off a pot or raises their Ace rag and gets me to fold, that's fine.
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#135
08-10-2005, 07:36 PM
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Re: RESULTS SHIP IT BWAHAHAH HOLLA
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Every time you lead the turn after it is checked through and take down the pot uncontested you would have taken it down on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] this is quite wrong. [ QUOTE ] Are you planning on leading the turn? [/ QUOTE ] it depends.. [ QUOTE ] If someone semi bluffs me off a pot or raises their Ace rag and gets me to fold, that's fine. [/ QUOTE ] its also fine to lose the 15 chips and then fold. holla
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#136
08-10-2005, 08:04 PM
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Re: RESULTS SHIP IT BWAHAHAH HOLLA
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[ QUOTE ] Every time you lead the turn after it is checked through and take down the pot uncontested you would have taken it down on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] this is quite wrong. [/ QUOTE ] The exceptions are pretty rare.
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#137
08-10-2005, 08:13 PM
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Re: RESULTS SHIP IT BWAHAHAH HOLLA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Every time you lead the turn after it is checked through and take down the pot uncontested you would have taken it down on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] this is quite wrong. [/ QUOTE ] The exceptions are pretty rare. [/ QUOTE ] might as well say you should bet every flop then. holla
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#139
08-10-2005, 08:19 PM
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Re: RESULTS SHIP IT BWAHAHAH HOLLA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Every time you lead the turn after it is checked through and take down the pot uncontested you would have taken it down on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] this is quite wrong. [/ QUOTE ] The exceptions are pretty rare. [/ QUOTE ] might as well say you should bet every flop then. holla [/ QUOTE ] um, no, for several reasons. The first of which has to do with conditional probability, the second of which has to do with having showdown value. There are also meta game reasons, and betting every flop is an easily exploitable strategy.
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#140
08-10-2005, 08:43 PM
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Re: RESULTS SHIP IT BWAHAHAH HOLLA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Every time you lead the turn after it is checked through and take down the pot uncontested you would have taken it down on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] this is quite wrong. [/ QUOTE ] The exceptions are pretty rare. [/ QUOTE ] might as well say you should bet every flop then. holla [/ QUOTE ] um, no, for several reasons. The first of which has to do with conditional probability, the second of which has to do with having showdown value. There are also meta game reasons, and betting every flop is an easily exploitable strategy. [/ QUOTE ] i was kidding. holla
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