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  #1  
Old 12-06-2005, 09:15 AM
Zim Zim is offline
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Default SSH and tight low limit games.

Hey guys,

Quick question: Is the advice in SSH applicable to tight 2/4 games?

I'm new to limit, just started ... but from playing at Absolute, Cryptos, and even Pokerrom, I rarely see flop percentages over 26%.

Actually, at Absolute they were as low as 16%.

The book is fantastic, really opened my eyes to the game, but I'm not sure how much of the advice is relevant for the games I find myself in.

Any thoughts, or book recommendations would be appreciated. Tight games tend to thwart me.

Best,
Zim
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2005, 09:49 AM
bernie bernie is offline
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Default Re: SSH and tight low limit games.

What other books have you read?

b
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2005, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: SSH and tight low limit games.

zim, find some other sites. that's way too low flop %'s (was wondering VPIP or flop% seen - either way, those are pretty low).

i posted something similar a few weeks ago.

some books good for tighter poker = ciaffone (MLP, i think is title - haven't read but people love it), matt maroon (not well=known, but cheap, very straight-forward, and he talks about very tight games).

i'm sure there are others too..... but i've played loose passive mostly and i too had a hard time vs. very tight/aggressive

gary carson book is excellent (never talked about here???) in one piece of advice: he says game selection is #1 above anything else. so he'd probably say find another site (no poker tracker, fewer bonuses, maybe more europeans are factors that i think lead to softer tables). i know people will think i'm crazy about the bonuses, but i'd rather soft tables than having to deal with multi-tabling bonus clearers (and yes, i'd be one too) any day

hope that helps!!!
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  #4  
Old 12-06-2005, 10:27 AM
Zim Zim is offline
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Default Re: SSH and tight low limit games.

Hey Sm,

Thanks. Yes, I often find myself caught between the best bonus ... and softest games.

Absolute, before they changed their bonus structure, was filled full of "bonus whores" (to use the unflattering term), and even Pokerroom seems pretty tight.

That said when a 100%, $600 bonus will clear at a rate of about $5-$6 a table per hour at 2/4 ... it's rather tough to pass up.

Particularly for a limit newbie who, as of this posting, is averaging only about 1 BB/100 hands after 2700 hands.

However, I did swing by PokerStars ... and was blown away by the loose action. Did quite well for myself, and contemplated only playing there, even with no bonus.

(some have said that the rake is equivalent to a 40% rakeback at Party ... I haven't confirmed this)

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. It is definitely on my mind.

Best,
Zim
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  #5  
Old 12-06-2005, 10:41 AM
Zim Zim is offline
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Default Re: SSH and tight low limit games.

Hey Bernie,

Started with WLLH (2nd edition) a while back, played a little ... didn't really gel, so I turned my attention to NL.

Played around with NL, low stakes ($25-$50) for a year, flipped through Super System, but after making a few thousand, losing a few thousand, I decided to start at the beginning again ... and with Limit.

Bought GSIH and played a few thousand hands of $1 and $2 limit, enough to find myself breaking even, then plunged into SSH about three nights ago.

Decided to give up on trying to play 10 tables at once, and plunked myself down at 2 tables (2/4 on the pokerroom network) and actually watch the action.

Find myself enjoying the game much more now.

I think that there is a considerable step from GSIH to SSH, and I still question the general attitude that low limit games are filled with loose, uneducated players. Perhaps in B&M casinos, but online ... tight play is more the norm, I find.

Thanks for any feedback, looks like from your number of posts you've been around for sometime. All recommendations would be appreciated.

Cheers!
Zim
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2005, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: SSH and tight low limit games.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the advice given by SSHE even if the games are tight

Only thing is, that the preflop chart become a bit too loose, but if you adjust those, then you are on a roll
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:11 PM
bernie bernie is offline
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Default Re: SSH and tight low limit games.

[ QUOTE ]
Started with WLLH (2nd edition) a while back, played a little ... didn't really gel, so I turned my attention to NL.

Played around with NL, low stakes ($25-$50) for a year, flipped through Super System, but after making a few thousand, losing a few thousand, I decided to start at the beginning again ... and with Limit.

Bought GSIH and played a few thousand hands of $1 and $2 limit, enough to find myself breaking even, then plunged into SSH about three nights ago.


[/ QUOTE ]

Cool. One thing about most books is that they're split up into the streets. So if you have to, go street by street. I'd recommend getting preflop down first. Play a bit tighter than recommended until you have the main positional hands down and are comfortable with them postflop. Then expand your starters a bit. WLLH is good. Another thing is to get involved in the strategy forums. This will accelerate the learning process and answer most questions you have on many of the main concepts. Find a hand, respond to it, then check your thinking against the other responders. Don't be afraid to be wrong and looking foolish. Others will help point you in the right direction. We've all been there. It does take time and effort. It generally doesn't happen too fast to develop. It can take awhile to 'click'.

Switching from n/l to limit and back and forth could hinder you. They are different in many aspects. I've found it was easier to learn limit, then once I had that down, go to other forms. It just seemed to crossover better. Even then, I had to watch for leaks that tended to develop when switching from n/l back to limit.(primarily developed looseness preflop)

[ QUOTE ]
I think that there is a considerable step from GSIH to SSH, and I still question the general attitude that low limit games are filled with loose, uneducated players. Perhaps in B&M casinos, but online ... tight play is more the norm, I find.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd reread GSIH then read WLLH. Make sure you understand most of what you're reading. You should eventually be able to explain reasonably why you made each move you did during a hand.

The games can start to tighten up around 2-4 or higher online(UB. not sure about the other sites). I've found many online 3-6 to 5-10 games(UB) play tougher than 10-20 or 20-40 live. However, playing those tighter tables for lower limits is a cheaper education for tougher games.

Play the lower games(1-2 and lower) until you can beat it. (fwiw, my latest roll I started on the .01-.02 tables) It may not take that long to convince/prove to yourself. A month or 2 if you really delve into it. But you want to start out beating the crap players. Don't buy into the sh*t that it's a lottery and takes no skill. If that were true, everyone on there would be winning. They aren't. Don't worry about making money, just worry about playing well. If you do that, the money will follow regardless of what longshot just beat you on the river.

Then, once you get WLLH, GSIH and start understanding SSHE more, try HEPFAP or Theory of Poker. Note that you won't understand everything in the books right away. It takes awhile to process as there is really quite a bit there. Which is one reason why many of us have read multiple beginner books along with other books. Some concepts click in one book while others click in other books. Different ways of expaining stuff. It also helps when you are actually in the situation and can see how it works in a real game. Experience is huge. Again, posting on the strategy forums is invaluable.

[ QUOTE ]
looks like from your number of posts you've been around for sometime.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been around awhile. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] But nowadays, postcount doesn't always mean much.

Have a good one!

b
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: SSH and tight low limit games.

good advice all around.

i somewhat concur with adapting SSHE tight chart. tighten it up alot and really watch position. in my limited recent experience with tight/aggressive, i kept getting run over post-flop and couldn't figure out if it was lousy flops or not. i just wasn't used to the aggression of my opponents or that i was supposed to be applying myself.

given that we are talking about adapting other books for very tight games, i'd have a look at harrington. his is no-limit but he is very, very tight and has great respect for 1) postion; 2) prior raise(s). exactly the kind of mindset you want. although you'd have to think thru no-limit vs. super-tight limit.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:23 PM
bernie bernie is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: seattle!!!__ too sunny to be in a cardroom....ahhh, one more hand
Posts: 3,752
Default Re: SSH and tight low limit games.

[ QUOTE ]
given that we are talking about adapting other books for very tight games, i'd have a look at harrington. his is no-limit but he is very, very tight and has great respect for 1) postion; 2) prior raise(s). exactly the kind of mindset you want. although you'd have to think thru no-limit vs. super-tight limit.


[/ QUOTE ]

However, be very careful when using a n/l tourney book and applying it to a limit ringgame. I'd actually forego anything but limit ringgame books at this point. Tourneys are a whole different animal. Just as is n/l.

b
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:30 PM
jakethebake jakethebake is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9
Default Re: SSH and tight low limit games.

[ QUOTE ]
I've been around awhile. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] But nowadays, postcount doesn't always mean much.

Have a good one!

b

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so true. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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