Playing semiprofessionally....rather part time

I have a full time job in nyc where I clear a decent living. My spending patterns are poor and I should have alot more int he bank but that is another story. I was considering playing during my nights online with an occasional trip to AC or Fox. As previous posts spoke about the swings in limit vs. no limit, I do agree that the mentality in limit is knowing specifically when to foldem. A significant raise cannot push your opponent off a hand and I believe that if you can perform this part of the game well then you can have a great edge in no limit games. With that said, I am looking to invest a portion of my salary into playing part time. I know you recommend 20 buy-ins for nl. If you are not playing 8 hours a day though, rather say 3-4 max, what would you recommend for that.

[SheridanCat]

Hmmm, I think you're thinking on limit vs. no-limit and when to fold is inside out. Patting yourself on the back for making laydowns in limit hold'em is a recipe for weak play. And thinking NL is about pushing people off hands with big bets is a recipe for going broke. This is all closely related to people complaining about being unable to "protect their hand" in limit hold'em; they don't understand what protecting their hand means.

As for your buy-in question, other can answer that better than I, no doubt. I'd say you should have about the same bankroll.

Regards,

T

[cardcounter0]

You need the same bankroll, it is all one long session.

The bankroll requirements are so that you can "weather" the ups and downs that the variance of the game hands you, so you don't go broke before you achieve your +EV edge in the game results.
If you play part time, the up and down streaks will occur over longer stretches of time, and it will take longer to achieve your final results, or smooth out the hills and valleys. If you play full time, part time, continiously, or one hand a day, the same ups and downs, streaks and runs, are there -- it just occurs over different periods of time.

It also depends on how you define your bankroll. The 300 BB bankroll is for full time play with nothing but your play being added to it. You could start with a smaller bankroll for part time play, if you are willing to add to it from your other income, in case your initial bankroll gets low (what you are calling starting bankroll really isn't your bankroll in the strict sense of the word).

[PokerCad]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, I think you're thinking on limit vs. no-limit and when to fold is inside out. Patting yourself on the back for making laydowns in limit hold'em is a recipe for weak play. And thinking NL is about pushing people off hands with big bets is a recipe for going broke. This is all closely related to people complaining about being unable to "protect their hand" in limit hold'em; they don't understand what protecting their hand means.

ABSOLUTELY,,well said

Jeff

[BoogerFace]

Just start playing $100 max NL. You have a job so you can put $100 a week into your bankroll. Save all your proceeds until you have 2k. Once you hit 2k, no need to add $100 a week to your bankroll, you can just stick it in the bank.

If you go bust after your first session or two, no biggie - you'll have another paycheck soon.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I consider myself a "semi-professional." That is I have a job that brings me the majority of my money, but I still play seriously on the side, and that money makes up some significant portion of my yearly income, tho not the bulk of it.

To elaborate, I probably clear about $12,000-$15,000 a year playing cards, given my current rate of play and stakes (I don't bother keeping track anymore). Not enough to live on, but enough to make a pretty good difference in my spending money.

In the end tho, it's all the same, the only debate is on the rate at which you play. You've gotta have the bankroll, you've gotta be good enough to beat the game for a decent hourly rate, etc etc bla bla bla. Nothing really changes between pro and semi-pro, except the timeline. You play fewer hours, but the variance and bankroll requirements don't change.

The exception might be that if my bankroll drops too low, I can stop playing long enough to re-build it by working (i.e. I have a replenishable bankroll), where this isn't really a viable option for a full-time pro.

I tell you this, I did the full time poker thing for about three years, and it basically SUCKS. I did OK, good enough to prove IT CAN BE DONE, but that doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. "Part-time pro" is the way to go. Basically a part-time pro has decided to make a lifetime profit doing what they love as a sort of "side job." Not bad to have a fun hobby with a payback schedule.

One final point tho, if I'm not having fun, I'm outta there. Money ain't everything.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

It should be noted that in my reply, I didn't specify diddly between limit or no limit, stud or hold'em, or whatever. That doesn't really matter. What matters is EV, bankroll, discipline, and everything else that goes with attempting to make a profit gambling at the game of poker. The specific details of each game are different, but the overall approach has to be the same no matter what you play. And things like "making big folds" aren't what really matters, those are just small details of a specific game type. If you have to debate that stuff in much detail, you're probably not even ready for the "semi-pro" level of play.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Some good stuff in this post. I don't disagree with any of it.

I'll elaborate slightly here on a couple things tho...

[ QUOTE ]
The 300 BB bankroll is for full time play with nothing but your play being added to it. You could start with a smaller bankroll for part time play, if you are willing to add to it from your other income, in case your initial bankroll gets low (what you are calling starting bankroll really isn't your bankroll in the strict sense of the word).


[/ QUOTE ]

If you're thinking of trying to play without a "replenishable bankroll," I'd consider 300 big bets (for limit play) to be TOO SMALL. You really need more of a cushion than this, because you may have overestimated your TRUE EDGE. There are many factors to consider that you may have failed to fully comprehend when you decided just how good you were in the first place.

I recommend 400 or 500 big bets for an aspiring "limit pro." Safety first.

For a no-limit player, it's more debatable. But if you think 20 buy-ins is the number, go with the safe number and at least add 50% to that, if not double it.

al

[Abbaddabba]

If you're able to drop in limits as your bankroll is depleted from swings, you dont need all that much.

If you're relying on poker as a source of income though, splitting your hourly rate in half usually sucks ass - so yeah, you definitely want more than 300BB's.

You also are going to want to manage your money outside of your bankroll.

That is to say, keep surpluses from your winnings in a separate account to pay for bills in periods when you hit the downswing, so that you wont have to remove it from your bankroll safety net.

You'll experience a lot less anxiety this way.


A good rule is to keep a few months worth of living expenses off to the side at any given time.

Al, you make some good points here. What games and levels do you normally play?