No reads, paired flop, tons of aggression...

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd 3bet the turn and raise the river. BB is on a smaller jack, probably a J9s given his turn raise, and MP1 is futily hoping that neither of you have a jack. He's probably on a middle pair like 55.


[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Results:
<font color="white">
BB shows J9s
MP shows 55
Hero wins with a pair of jacks, king kicker.

</font>

[/ QUOTE ]
well this is obviously wrong...

[/ QUOTE ]

partypoker is totally rigged!!!

i'd 3-bet that flop after i fold preflop (however i don't have problem w/the raise- i've just been folding it there) then i fold the turn. then i make up results that could actually happen [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Salva135]

You pretty much played every street incorrectly:

Pre-flop: Why are we raising UTG here? KJ isn't that strong of a hand and it's not even suited. This is an easy fold.

Flop: Makes sense to bet out here since you're the pre-flop agressor and you connected, but you have to three-bet here. BB's cold-call of 2 bets is going to scare me, btw.

Turn: BB's check-raise here indicates nothing but pure strength. He's practically waving a sign telling you you're beat. He most likely has the deuce, though it's not inconceivable that he hung in there with 99 and just hit his gin card.

River: At this point, you're committed to call, but you shouldn't even be here at this point. MP most likely has a jack that he just couldn't get away from, but you should have.

[@bsolute_luck]

ENOUGH WITH THE PREFLOP!!! we've already had everyone in this frickin' thread say it: STOP already.

and FWIW: to make a blanket statement: fold preflop without any information regarding the table or players is ridiculous.

the major problem wasn't the preflop raise. so you put in 2 SBs- big deal. postflop is where the problem is. how about instead of spewing preflop suggestions for the nth time, someone count how many bets we missed postflop to make up for the preflop mistake. then you'll see how minor the preflop raise was.

[Saint_D]

[ QUOTE ]
ENOUGH WITH THE PREFLOP!!! we've already had everyone in this frickin' thread say it: STOP already.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's the problem with grunching. Everyone is going to say it. It was my fault for not saying I had read everyone but the two villains on the table as weak-tight PF and that they hadn't shown any other inlcination in the 5-10 hands they sat on.

Ironically, I am very please with this PF raise. I don't think it's a mistake at all. I don't want many callers with this TP type hand. This table is too weak tight to fold it, and people have been calling PFR's pretty light. I was treading water at this table just stealing the blinds every couple of orbits from various positions.

I do agree that I dorked up the rest of the hand pretty bad. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]


[ QUOTE ]
then i make up results that could actually happen

[/ QUOTE ]

I was pretty surprised at the results. I did want to fold the turn, but my subconscious overruled me and I called instead. I am not sure if this is good or bad. Playing poker because "I have a feeling" sounds like a road to doom.

-D

[@bsolute_luck]

i agree about the hazard of grunching. the NEW version of grunching is:

1. look at the hand and come up with how you would play the hand and why.

2. read other people's thoughts

3. THEN reply if you have something TO ADD or to question or disagree, not something to repeat over and over..

PS: next time Saint- post the reads [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Eeegah]

[ QUOTE ]
I was pretty surprised at the results.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are we. You may want to reread the results you posted to see why [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[cfjr2]

yeah - how do you win with a pair of Jacks? There's a pair of 2's on the board - so you have two pair...oh year there's a 9 on the board BB wins with 2 pair Jacks and Nines to beat your Jacks and Twos...post a real hand.

[deception5]

I actually ran into the same situation yesterday at 3/6 6-max against a pair of aggressive players (only my hand was weaker than hero's so I did fold the turn), BB does not need a strong hand here to raise to knock hero out on the turn. If BB thinks there's a chance that MP1 has overcards here he can raise to knock out hero and have a reasonable chance of taking down the pot with 9x/Jx. As you can see with everyone advocating a fold with tpgk, this is a strong play and gives BB a chance to win a pot he otherwise would have lost or split.

Also, why do we assume 2x here? Wouldn't a better play for him here to be to just bet out on the turn with a 2 and hope that MP1 raises again? C/R'ing this forces hero to fold a hand that he's clearly shown he likes.

[deception5]

There's also a big difference between a J22 flop and a J88 flop. Even the BB has some standards against a raise [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]