learning

QUAHOGMAN · #1 11-27-2005, 10:16 AM

I understand to keep improving I have to post hands. So here is one my first hand posting. I figure this is the best hand to post. It happened over the summer and I still think about it. So please rip away at how I played it. I have no real reads on table but figure button for over pair.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Button raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (13.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Button raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (23.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds, Button calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 29.25 BB

Nick C · #2 11-27-2005, 10:34 AM

I don't think you should let Button's flop and turn raises slow you down. I would 3-bet the flop. On the turn, also, I'm thinking you should 3-bet. I can see that you're trapping the players in between with your stop-n-go's, but the board is somewhat coordinated and your hand is not invulnerable and maybe the players in between will keep calling anyway. (And if someone folds a hand like QT, you really don't mind, in this huge pot.)

When UTG+1 raises on the river, it looks like you just lost to T9 or some other straight (UTG+1 could have pocket 5's, for instance), but I think you have to call, in a pot this big. Mabye UTG+1 just has pocket 7's or something.

QUAHOGMAN · #3 11-27-2005, 10:46 AM

Nick your spot on. I keep thinking I should have 3 bet the flop and turn. A straight took down the pot. Button had pocket queens. Damn river. I had the read on the button correct, just missed the other caller.

lerxst337 · #4 11-27-2005, 10:47 AM

I'd like to hear some other comments on this. Given the size of the pot, I don't know that I don't mind the call on the flop. The only problem I see would be that you have no reads. You miss out on a lot of value if the button doesn't raise with a lot of hands when you lead the turn. Absent of reads, I think you 3 bet the flop, calling a cap and leading the turn if necessary. You have a HUGE hand, and the only hand in the button's range that beats you is JJ. Someone may have come in with 5-7 and hit his hand on the turn, and if that is so, so be it. You have a TON of overlay with the callers in the middle. I'd ram and jam, and only when the competition folds do I slow down to the button.

Given the way you played the hand (which like I said, I don't know that I mind the flop), I think it's criminal that you didn't 3 bet the turn. You're losing to 2 hands, and the only one that has shown strength so far is the button. Charge the draws the max.

That said, it looks like you lost to T9, or some other straight, and you weren't going to fold him anyway, but that doesn't excuse missing out on equity before the river.

QUAHOGMAN · #5 11-27-2005, 11:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to hear some other comments on this. Given the size of the pot, I don't know that I don't mind the call on the flop. The only problem I see would be that you have no reads. You miss out on a lot of value if the button doesn't raise with a lot of hands when you lead the turn. Absent of reads, I think you 3 bet the flop, calling a cap and leading the turn if necessary. You have a HUGE hand, and the only hand in the button's range that beats you is JJ. Someone may have come in with 5-7 and hit his hand on the turn, and if that is so, so be it. You have a TON of overlay with the callers in the middle. I'd ram and jam, and only when the competition folds do I slow down to the button.

Given the way you played the hand (which like I said, I don't know that I mind the flop), I think it's criminal that you didn't 3 bet the turn. You're losing to 2 hands, and the only one that has shown strength so far is the button. Charge the draws the max.

That said, it looks like you lost to T9, or some other straight, and you weren't going to fold him anyway, but that doesn't excuse missing out on equity before the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I'm still learning to jam the pot. I appreciate the comments. My thoughts were that the pot was huge, that a 3 bet wasn't going to cause a person to fold. But after looking this over and over I realize that a 3bet was in order on the turn for sure.

This forum is a fantastic tool for learning. Thanks.

mute · #6 11-27-2005, 11:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts were that the pot was huge, that a 3 bet wasn't going to cause a person to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly why you should 3bet! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]