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#1
11-17-2005, 02:19 PM
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semi-bluff on the turn
Since I play at the 1/2 level, I almost never bluff, because it's usually not profitable. But I almost folded the best hand last night on the turn due to a semi-bluff, which got me thinking...
How many folks ever check-raise (or raise) on the turn with a small pair and a flush or OES draw? Assume it's heads up and you think the opponent might just be pushing overcards (let's say he raised preflop). If the opponent just calls your raise, do you fire again on the river, even if you missed your draw? Any other thoughts are welcome. I don't remember reading anything like this in SSHE. I can piece together a hand history, if folks would rather deal with a concrete example. Thanks. 
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#3
11-17-2005, 02:34 PM
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Re: semi-bluff on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
Since I play at the 1/2 level, I almost never bluff, because it's usually not profitable. But I almost folded the best hand last night on the turn due to a semi-bluff, which got me thinking... [/ QUOTE ] The bluff/semi-bluff frequency depends on your read on villain. You'll be surprised how many pots you can pick up by betting into the right player. [ QUOTE ] How many folks ever check-raise (or raise) on the turn with a small pair and a flush or OES draw? Assume it's heads up and you think the opponent might just be pushing overcards (let's say he raised preflop). [/ QUOTE ] I'm more inclined to check-raise the flop than the turn, but check-raising the turn against a player who will auto-bet the flop and turn is fine. Again, reads are important. The reason I'd rather check-raise the flop is that I would rather him get only one chance to hit an overcard instead of two. [ QUOTE ] If the opponent just calls your raise, do you fire again on the river, even if you missed your draw? [/ QUOTE ] Reads, again... Players who call a turn check-raise are often going to call a river bet (not always).
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#4
11-17-2005, 02:44 PM
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Re: semi-bluff on the turn (with HH)
Empire 1/2, full table. Hero is UTG+1, villian is BB.
Hero is dealt T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] preflop: 1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls. Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] BB checks, Hero bets, CO folds, BB calls Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] BB checks, Hero bets, BB check-raises... < this is where I nearly folded >...Hero calls River: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] BB checks, Hero checks Villian had 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], so I took down the pot. But he came very close to stealing it away from me with his CR on the turn with an OESD and pair of 4s. How many folks make this kind of play on the turn? Do you feel it's profitable?
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#6
11-17-2005, 02:48 PM
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Re: semi-bluff on the turn (with HH)
[ QUOTE ]
Empire 1/2, full table. Hero is UTG+1, villian is BB. Hero is dealt T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] preflop: 1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls. Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] BB checks, Hero bets, CO folds, BB calls Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] BB checks, Hero bets, BB check-raises... < this is where I nearly folded >...Hero calls River: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] BB checks, Hero checks Villian had 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], so I took down the pot. But he came very close to stealing it away from me with his CR on the turn with an OESD and pair of 4s. How many folks make this kind of play on the turn? Do you feel it's profitable? [/ QUOTE ] If he bets the river, are you calling? If not, then you shouldn't really be calling the turn check-raise. Again, this sort of play depends on the type of villain I'm up against. If you're often folding on the turn, I'm often pulling turn donks and check-raises.
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#7
11-17-2005, 02:51 PM
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Re: semi-bluff on the turn
[ QUOTE ]
The bluff/semi-bluff frequency depends on your read on villain. You'll be surprised how many pots you can pick up by betting into the right player. [/ QUOTE ] For me it's all about reads. My cards aren't actually as important to me as what it is likely my opponent has and his tendency to lay down. I need a read that opponent continues aggression UI but backs off quickly to aggression, and I'd like to see him fold a few big pots on the turn/river to late aggression.
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#8
11-17-2005, 02:57 PM
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Re: semi-bluff on the turn (with HH)
[ QUOTE ]
If he bets the river, are you calling? If not, then you shouldn't really be calling the turn check-raise. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. I had decided to call a bet on the river also. I didn't have a flush to fear, and I thought a straight was unlikely. My main fear was a set.
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#9
11-17-2005, 02:59 PM
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Re: semi-bluff on the turn (with HH)
In my opinion this is a decent move against a decent/aggressive player. My guess is he had that type of read on you. So take it as a compliment, but don't fold here unless your read on him is very passive.
The features of this hand that make it a good spot to try this are: 1. Your pre-flop raise, which will be high cards more often than a pocket pair; 2. The low flop: there is only one card in the "playing zone" of 9 through Ace. This means you are likely not to have improved if you raised with big cards. 3. The fact that the pot is heads-up on the turn, but isn't completely tiny (I count 5.25 BBs after your turn bet, so I guess that is pretty small); and 4. He's got a ton of outs if you're ahead. The pair + OESD means he's got up to 13 outs, so it's a lot stronger than if all he had was the straight draw. If the flop had been K J 4 instead of J 6 4 I wouldn't like this as much because there would be a higher chance that you had made a pair (of course, he wouldn't have had the straight draw then, but you know what I mean).
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#10
11-17-2005, 03:08 PM
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Re: semi-bluff on the turn (with HH)
[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion this is a decent move against a decent/aggressive player. My guess is he had that type of read on you. So take it as a compliment, but don't fold here unless your read on him is very passive. The features of this hand that make it a good spot to try this are: 1. Your pre-flop raise, which will be high cards more often than a pocket pair; 2. The low flop: there is only one card in the "playing zone" of 9 through Ace. This means you are likely not to have improved if you raised with big cards. 3. The fact that the pot is heads-up on the turn, but isn't completely tiny (I count 5.25 BBs after your turn bet, so I guess that is pretty small); and 4. He's got a ton of outs if you're ahead. The pair + OESD means he's got up to 13 outs, so it's a lot stronger than if all he had was the straight draw. If the flop had been K J 4 instead of J 6 4 I wouldn't like this as much because there would be a higher chance that you had made a pair (of course, he wouldn't have had the straight draw then, but you know what I mean). [/ QUOTE ] I agree with the above + one more point - with his small pair, he was ahead of 2 overcards - even more reason to push a little in this spot
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