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#81
11-01-2005, 06:20 AM
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Re: Evidence AGAINST Christianity
[ QUOTE ]
I believe the Bible to be 100% true, word for word. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We've been through this in other threads. Those are easily explainable when placed in the proper context. [/ QUOTE ] I would be grateful if you could explain the following by 'placing them in the proper context': The number of beasts in the ark? Gen 7:2 “Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.” Gen 7:8 “Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, Gen 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.” How many languages? Gen 10:5, 20 & 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel. Gen 11:1 There was one language before the Tower of Babel. Not too good at Math? Gen 1:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born. Gen 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135). Gen 12:4 & Act 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran, which was after his father died. 75!=135 David is which son? 1 Sam 16:10 and 11 David is the eighth son of Jesse. 1 Chr 2:13-15 David is the seventh son of Jesse. God is forgetful? Gen 15:9 & Exd 20:24 & 29:10-42 & Lev 1:1-7, 38 & Num 28:1-29, 40 God details sacrificial offerings. Jer 7:21-22 God denies detailing sacrificial offerings. Who is the Father-In-Law of Moses? Exo 3:1 Jethro was the Father-In-Law of Moses. Num 10:29 & Jud 4:11 Hobab was the Father-In-Law of Moses. Who is the father of Joseph? Mat 1:16 "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." Luk 3:23 "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli." Judas died how? Mat 27:5 "And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." Acts 1:18 "And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." Jesus is confused? John 5:31 Jesus says, "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." John 8:18 Jesus says, "I am he that beareth witness of myself." What was the colour of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial? Mat 27:28 Scarlet John 19:2 Purple What did they give him to drink? Mat 27:34 Vinegar Mark 15:23 Wine with myrrh What was written on the sign on the cross? Mark 15:26 "And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS." Mat 27:37 "And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS." Luke 23:38 "And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS." John 19:19 "And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS." What were Jesus' last words? Mat 27:46,50 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost." Luke 23:46 "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." John 19:30 "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." 
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#82
11-01-2005, 07:07 AM
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Re: Evidence AGAINST Christianity
That will keep them busy for a while. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#83
11-01-2005, 11:44 AM
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Re: Evidence AGAINST Christianity
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I believe the Bible to be 100% true, word for word. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We've been through this in other threads. Those are easily explainable when placed in the proper context. [/ QUOTE ] I would be grateful if you could explain the following by 'placing them in the proper context': The number of beasts in the ark? Gen 7:2 “Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.” Gen 7:8 “Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, Gen 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.” How many languages? Gen 10:5, 20 & 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel. Gen 11:1 There was one language before the Tower of Babel. Not too good at Math? Gen 1:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born. Gen 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135). Gen 12:4 & Act 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran, which was after his father died. 75!=135 David is which son? 1 Sam 16:10 and 11 David is the eighth son of Jesse. 1 Chr 2:13-15 David is the seventh son of Jesse. God is forgetful? Gen 15:9 & Exd 20:24 & 29:10-42 & Lev 1:1-7, 38 & Num 28:1-29, 40 God details sacrificial offerings. Jer 7:21-22 God denies detailing sacrificial offerings. Who is the Father-In-Law of Moses? Exo 3:1 Jethro was the Father-In-Law of Moses. Num 10:29 & Jud 4:11 Hobab was the Father-In-Law of Moses. Who is the father of Joseph? Mat 1:16 "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." Luk 3:23 "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli." Judas died how? Mat 27:5 "And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." Acts 1:18 "And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." Jesus is confused? John 5:31 Jesus says, "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." John 8:18 Jesus says, "I am he that beareth witness of myself." What was the colour of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial? Mat 27:28 Scarlet John 19:2 Purple What did they give him to drink? Mat 27:34 Vinegar Mark 15:23 Wine with myrrh What was written on the sign on the cross? Mark 15:26 "And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS." Mat 27:37 "And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS." Luke 23:38 "And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS." John 19:19 "And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS." What were Jesus' last words? Mat 27:46,50 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost." Luke 23:46 "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." John 19:30 "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." [/ QUOTE ] I'm leaving town shortly and don't have the time to answer each one of these individually. However, you can find the answers to all these and more at http://www.tektonics.org/ Use the "Apolgetics Encyclopedia" at the top left.
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#84
11-01-2005, 12:38 PM
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Re: Evidence AGAINST Christianity
[ QUOTE ]
Your including Jews, Muslims, Mormons and Hindus in this I assume. [/ QUOTE ] I don't include anyone. The Bible states that every human being has sinned and needs salvation. That includes Catholics and Protestants.
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#85
11-01-2005, 12:59 PM
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Re: Evidence AGAINST Christianity
[ QUOTE ]
Why has NotReady ignored this post? It's by far the most interesting one in the thread. (Not surprising considering its inspiration! Nietzsche = teh pwn.) [/ QUOTE ] Tell me the historical facts upon which Nietzsche bases his claim - the people, location and time range - and I will comment for you.
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#86
11-01-2005, 01:46 PM
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Re: Evidence AGAINST Christianity
[ QUOTE ]
I'm leaving town shortly and don't have the time to answer each one of these individually. However, you can find the answers to all these and more at http://www.tektonics.org/ Use the "Apolgetics Encyclopedia" at the top left. [/ QUOTE ] Thank you for that link. I have not seen that website, or come across the technique of 'harmonization', before and found it very interesting. I won't answer all of the 'harmonizations' individually as the general technique can be summed up and debunked: 1. Bible has contradiction where it says A in one place and B in another. 2. 'Harmonization' says that A is in fact equal to B or that a 'harmonious' C can be formed by joining A and B. Unfortunately the suspension of logic and rationality required to equate A to B or join them together to form C is ridiculous. For example, they harmonize the differing numbers of beasts entering the ark as follows: [ QUOTE ] The answer is, seven. The phrase "two by two" in 7:9 simply means the animals entered the ark in pairs. So the beasts with 7 representatives came in as 3 pairs and 1 oddball each, paired off male and female and one spare wheel. [/ QUOTE ] The idea of three pairs and one 'oddball' is not from the Bible, it is something they have conjured out of thin air in a desperate attempt to smash a round peg into a square hole. They use similar techniques of fabrication, misdirection, and ignorance of Occam's Razor in all of their 'harmonizations'. I would suggest that it is very difficult to have a worthwhile discussion with someone who truly believes that these intellectually dishonest maneuverings are valid rebuttals to the obvious mistakes and contradictions in the Bible.
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#87
11-01-2005, 02:34 PM
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Re: Evidence AGAINST Christianity
[ QUOTE ]
The idea of three pairs and one 'oddball' is not from the Bible [/ QUOTE ] From another site: [ QUOTE ] Genesis 6:19-20 simply instructs Noah to preserve two of every kind. Genesis 7:2-3 is additional information where seven of the clean animals were to be taken and two of every other kind. [/ QUOTE ] God was simply providing clean animals for the purpose of animal sacrifice, perhaps also for food. This is just another manufactured contradiction. If you think about it for more than 2 seconds, this "obvious" contradiction occurred within the space of a few verses. Any 6th grader who might write this would see the difference between 7 and 2. It takes someone thinking below the level of 6th grade to imagine a contradiction here.
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#88
11-01-2005, 07:10 PM
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Re: Evidence AGAINST Christianity
[ QUOTE ]
God was simply providing clean animals for the purpose of animal sacrifice, perhaps also for food. This is just another manufactured contradiction. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure God 'simply' provided anything, as she seemed to seriously confuse the authors of Genesis: Genesis 6:19 "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female." Very specific about there only being two of 'every living thing'. Genesis 7:2 "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." According to your quoted site this adds 'additional information' that there should actually be seven of every clean beast, overriding the 'every living thing' mistake of 6:19. Dubious considering the explicit language used in 6:19, but we'll cut the idea some slack. Genesis 7:8+9 "Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, there went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female," Specifically mentions both clean and unclean beasts going in 'two and two', with no mention of seven at all. Whoops! Forget what they said in 7:2, they actually got it right in the first place in 6:19. Or hang on, maybe the seven went in "two and two... errr and two, errr and one 'oddball'"?! You have yet to demonstrate to me how this is a 'manufactured contradiction'. [ QUOTE ] If you think about it for more than 2 seconds, this "obvious" contradiction occurred within the space of a few verses. Any 6th grader who might write this would see the difference between 7 and 2. [/ QUOTE ] You would think so, wouldn't you? Though obviously it wasn't that clear to the authors of Genesis. (Before you say that Moses wrote Genesis please read Who Wrote The Bible? Friedman, 1997.) [ QUOTE ] It takes someone thinking below the level of 6th grade to imagine a contradiction here. [/ QUOTE ] Nice.
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#89
11-01-2005, 07:35 PM
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Re: Evidence AGAINST Christianity
[ QUOTE ]
Very specific about there only being two of 'every living thing'. [/ QUOTE ] Where does it say only? [ QUOTE ] According to your quoted site this adds 'additional information' that there should actually be seven of every clean beast, overriding the 'every living thing' mistake of 6:19. [/ QUOTE ] Why is that an override? [ QUOTE ] Specifically mentions both clean and unclean beasts going in 'two and two', with no mention of seven at all. Whoops! Forget what they said in 7:2, they actually got it right in the first place in 6:19. Or hang on, maybe the seven went in "two and two... errr and two, errr and one 'oddball'"? [/ QUOTE ] They went in in pairs. What a mystery. Yeah, you just overthrew 5000 years of Judaism and Christianity. Nobody ever thought of this before.
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#90
11-01-2005, 08:39 PM
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Re: Evidence AGAINST Christianity
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Specifically mentions both clean and unclean beasts going in 'two and two', with no mention of seven at all. Whoops! Forget what they said in 7:2, they actually got it right in the first place in 6:19. Or hang on, maybe the seven went in "two and two... errr and two, errr and one 'oddball'"? [/ QUOTE ] They went in in pairs. What a mystery. [/ QUOTE ]  (formerly kidluckee, somehow I got banned)
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