Confrontations with Mega Fish

[waynethetrain]

Well, I didn't have a huge sample of showdowns, but they were obviously showing down and betting with complete crap often enough for me notice and decide to play these high card hands aggressively and then call river bets and raises. That doesn't mean I was right to play this way. It just means I noticed it a lot. I am looking for feedback. Perhaps I can put together a reasonable strategy for the future.

[Little Lew]

megafish are there to play and won't be bluffed.
They grok action.

You can beat them but with better cards.

[Marquis]

I gave these some thought. They are difficult hands and even if you lost them all I don't think there are any giant mistakes.

Hand 1.
It's doubtful that I'd call the river with K-high. A-high and I probably do it. The rest I'm cool with.

Hand 2.
I'd always check behind the river here.

Hand 3.
If he had a hand when you called him on hand 1 I'd be more likely to fold this.

Hand 4.
Calling that river raise is pretty difficult but you should know if he is capable of snapping off a bluff here by now. If he had been bluffing in hands 1 and 3 go ahead and call. The previous action may also warrant a check call on this river even though you caught a piece of it.

[cmwck]

Hand 1: Just call preflop. I guess I'm OK with betting the flop, but why are you betting the turn and calling the river? I'd be a lot happier with the flop and turn bets if you had AK.

Hand 2: Much better. He plays almost 100% of his hands and he's almost all-in on this hand. Most likely he picked two random cards to go all the way to the river with.

[waynethetrain]

<font color="white">

Hand #1 He showed A5o for Ace High. I lose.

Hand #2 He showed Q9o for Q kicker. I win.

Hand #3 He showed 42o for a pair of 4s. I lose.

Hand #4 He raised river with Q4o - NOTHING. I win.

The net of the experience was slightly profitable. So at least it wasn't an expensive lesson.

I think the main thing I learned is that you can't drive these mega fish out with a bet on flop and the turn.
</font>

[Agthorr]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the main thing I learned is that you can't drive these mega fish out with a bet on flop and the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I use GT+ and configure it to show me each player's WTSD percentage to give me a sense of how often they'll fold. Some megafish (high VP$IP) will call anything preflop and then fit-or-fold. Betting out against them is more profitable.

I also setup my PT autorate rules to identify calling stations and give them the telephone icon. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Wetdog]

[in the dark]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1.

River: (6.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Why call?

[droolie]

Hand 1: Why are you check calling the river with K high? Either check fold or bet fold. If you are going to spend a BB on the river you are better off just betting. You might get villian to fold a better hand. Probably not but it;'s better than check calling with K high.

Hand 3: See hand 1.

Hands 2 and 4 seem fine. I might find a fold on hand 4 if villian is passive.

[SteveM]

Glad you came out ahead. I sometimes find myself in similar situations when I find a couple of known super-fish at my table. I'm salivating at the thought of taking their money and it makes me impatient, so I play stupidly - sometimes adding to their bankrolls (or to those of the sharks who have joined the feeding frenzy). It just KILLS me when I feel like I've out-stupided such a fish. Then I get even more determined to win it back, plus whatever additional amount was "rightfully" mine since they are, of course, super-fish. And so on, and so on... The trick, which I'm sure you know, is to be patient knowing that when you inevitably get your good hands you can count on those fish to be there to pay you off. Since I've started taking this to heart, my results are much better. I still loosen up a little against this type of player, but I just make myself think about it pretty hard first.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I didn't have a huge sample of showdowns, but they were obviously showing down and betting with complete crap often enough for me notice and decide to play these high card hands aggressively and then call river bets and raises. That doesn't mean I was right to play this way. It just means I noticed it a lot. I am looking for feedback. Perhaps I can put together a reasonable strategy for the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on the results, it's pretty clear that there should have been enough showdowns to see what was going on with a high level of clarity. When you see this happen, you need to watch the betting pattern and review the entire hand in your head (including hands you didn't play).

- What will he bet with on the flop?
- What will he just call down with?
- Does he ever raise the turn?
- Will he always bet when checked to?
- Does he check-call decent hands, waiting to check-raise later?

All of these things you can learn by watching, but you cannot learn by staring at stats.

I suspect the correct play would have been to check-call your high card hands and hope they hold up. When you pair up, look for a check-raise on the turn or river. There's a reaosnable chance he'll pay you off.