Stars Turbo SNGs profitable?

Has anyone been a consitant winner at the Stars Turbo Sngs over a large sample? Just started playing them and my results have been very up and down. Tring to figure out whether this is just due to variance or these Sngs are a crapshoot due to the fast moving blinds.

[housenuts]

no more of a crapshoot than party sngs with fast blinds and 800 starting chips

[darkcore]

in the lower levels it feels like you can almost fold into the money.

seriously, though... you can get away with very solid play. fold almost everything until T150-T200 and then start to play aggressiv. sure, later on you have to take coinflips and push any ace (or worse sometimes), but with blinds at T400 and 5 players left three of them don't know what they do.

high variance: yes. profitable: yes.

but fwiw, my sample size is small... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[The Yugoslavian]

Unfortunately after extensive research with a multitude of high-profile 2p2ers on this forum I've come to the conclusion that your gut instinct here is correct:

Stars Turbo STTs simply aren't profitable. The very best *may* be able to beat the rake. The mediocre will be in a losing battle to rake and the worst will probably have to shoot themselves soon.

Currently I am preparing the results of our study for publishing under ThisIsFuckingRigged publishing. I will let everyone know when the issue comes out so they can check it out.

Yugoslav

[Freudian]

They should be. I have only played 20 or so and have spotted loads of +EV situations. People fold too much with huge blinds. Of course the other side of that coin is that you have to adjust your calling range and make some nasty calls simply because the blinds are huge very quickly.

But I have no doubt they can be played with a decent profit.

[-Skeme-]

I'm showing about a 12-14% ROI after 230 SNGs, albeit this sample size is still too small, but yes, they're profitable. I'm only playing the $16's, though, and these are pretty cake. People fold way too much, aren't nearly aggressive enough, make awful calls, and just suck at poker in general.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately after extensive research with a multitude of high-profile 2p2ers on this forum I've come to the conclusion that your gut instinct here is correct:

Stars Turbo STTs simply aren't profitable. The very best *may* be able to beat the rake. The mediocre will be in a losing battle to rake and the worst will probably have to shoot themselves soon.

Currently I am preparing the results of our study for publishing under ThisIsFuckingRigged publishing. I will let everyone know when the issue comes out so they can check it out.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, please stop playing the Stars Turbos as quickly as possible. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] In all seriousness:

Let's think about it like this: because you have less time to outplay your opponents, your possible ROI is lower. Let's assume a good player can beat the Stars $22s for 25% ROI and the Stars $27s for 12% ROI (less than half). Let's also assume this player 4 tables the SnGs, and can finish a $27 set in 50 minutes on average and a $22 set in 1 hour 40 minutes (since the blinds take twice as long to go up).

$22 player in 100 minutes:
4 SnGs: $88 invested, $22 profit on average

$27 player in 100 minutes:
8 SnGs: $216 invested, $25.9 profit on average, lower long term variance because there are more SnGs in the same period. However, the possibility of downswings is increased because of the lower ROI.

I also think the difference in ROI numbers is in my example probably too stark. The Turbo SnGs are simply so much faster (IMO) that they make up for lack of profitability. Also if your style is better at adjusting to the structure (i.e. you are not weak tight like Yugo [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]) the possible ROI is not *that* much lower.

I think they are profitable. I play a ton of them, don't keep up with the numbers - but I'd guess I've played about 5K $55+5's. I'm showing a profit so far. If you read 'Winning Low Limit Hold'em' and try to play like that, you'll be a donator....if you figure out how these are beat and play to maximize your dollars, not necessarily the same thing as playing 'good poker' - then you can win long term. Others make more than me doing it, I'm sure. I know of some that make my ROI with twice/three fold the production (I only play 4 at a time usually).

[mmbt0ne]

Not in the past few days they aren't.

[Bluff Daddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think they are profitable. I play a ton of them, don't keep up with the numbers - but I'd guess I've played about 5K $55+5's. I'm showing a profit so far. if you figure out how these are beat and play to maximize your dollars, not necessarily the same thing as playing 'good poker' - then you can win long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

this really makes me think I should immediately start playing the 55's on stars