Strategies when up against BIG stack

PktAcesSoWht · #1 03-25-2005, 02:46 PM

5.50 MTT These two hands were agains the big stack. I think I should have pushed the first one, but I figured I had a lot of life left in me with the fold.

The second had was 26 people left. I am about 16th. I thought that he was just making a play on me so I called. I remembered the other hand that he bullied me with and thought that he was probably making a move there as well, so I called.

Thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG (t5980)
UTG+1 (t24176)
MP1 (t3978)
MP2 (t10180)
Hero (t26820)
CO (t11324)
Button (t66058)
SB (t20262)
BB (t81956)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises to t3600, 3 folds, BB calls t2400.

Flop: (t6600) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t64800, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t71400

Results in white below: 
No showdown. BB wins t71400. 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG (t34030)
UTG+1 (t249431)
MP1 (t44132)
MP2 (t48684)
Hero (t29145)
CO (t17032)
Button (t39323)
SB (t37630)
BB (t99556)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises to t9000, 3 folds, BB raises to t75000, Hero calls t19995 (All-In).

Flop: (t105045) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t105045) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t105045) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t105045

Results in white below: 
BB has Ac 4h (one pair, aces).
Hero has 4d 4s (one pair, fours).
Outcome: BB wins t105045.

MLG · #2 03-25-2005, 02:50 PM

hand 1: easy call
hand 2: push preflop

PktAcesSoWht · #3 03-25-2005, 02:54 PM

that's what I thought. Thank you for your comments. I put some of your other comments into action concerning fold equity in this tournament and finished 26th out of 500 plus. I really appreciate your thoughts.

I have to overcome my survival mode mentality on the first hand. I thought I had the better and probably did, but turned tail and ran.

on the second hand I was hoping to just take it down there, but I can see that the fold equity would have been higher had I pushed. Is this the right application of pushing that edge in this situation?

Pokrok · #4 03-25-2005, 03:09 PM

If we are talking about playing against a big stack online I have noticed a couple of things. Please understand for the most part these are observations AND I do not consider myself educated to the point of in depth teaching. I just like to ramble =o)

You can take chips from a big stack the next hand after they have won big. Most like to enter the next pot and will lay down to a reasonable raise preflop or on the flop. Remember, like respects like, come strong but not overbearing when playing against them in this situation.

You are more apt to steal their blinds. The reasoning behind this follows the thinking pattern of most chip leaders that is if you are willing to risk all your chips by raising them, you MUST have a hand. I want to point out here you must represent strong but do not challenge the ego of the chip leader. Ironically enough structured raises are more respected then all in pushes preflop as they represent someone that is adhering to a plan vs the mad gambler.

Understand that chip leaders, for the most part, WILL take negative edges to get all your chips preflop. Don't get pissed when your AK loses to J9 offsuit. Instead, wait till the big all in push on the flop vs preflop if it can be helped. It is much easier for the chip leader to lay down that J9 on the flop with 672 rainbow vs having all his chips in there preflop and he spikes that Jack or Nine.

Above all else remember, in general, you can attack an aggresive chip leader by reraising preflop. Most chip leaders will play big hands weak and weak hands big preflop.
Hope this helps and is not too offbase from what a real expert would say =o)

fnord_too · #5 03-25-2005, 03:18 PM

Hand 1 - Easy call, here's why: If BB had a big hand, he would almost certainly try for a check raise. You don't have the right number of chips for him to check (raise or call your all in) with a marginal hand. His bet screams "Please fold!" Don't oblige him, punish his poor bet. (Even if he has the nuts and you go broke, villain's bet is attrocious here.) You really do not have the option of getting away from this hand if you hit the flop, your stack is not deep enough to allow the action that would convince you that you didn't have the best hand.

Hand 2 - your stack puts you in push or fold mode pre flop. Either is fine, though I fold here a lot.

captainzodiac · #6 03-25-2005, 03:21 PM

i think my call on the first hand would have largely depended on the image i had of the big stack,if i thought he was a player that pushed top pair every time he made it,which many big stacks like to do,or even middle pair,i'd call,but if i seen he mainly only pushed with 2 pair trips,etc,i'd have to fold,you most likely had him out kicked,but his image would play a big factor in my call here.
as for 4-4,i hate that hand for raising unless its a small table,it plays best in a multi pot and you limp and catch trips,other then that it should be an easy fold,especially with an ace on board,and most players are playing there aces.although i love playing small pairs all in verus any two cards when i'm short stacked,and in late position,especially if big stack is in big blind or had limped in front of me,he'll almost surely call and i'm a slight favorite to double up.
really in these spots the big stack set you up pretty good by playing quite a few pots against you and getting you frustrated,we've all been there,someone wants to play every pot for huge stakes,and you're not willing to committ that many chips on 1 pair,it's a tough situation,i usually like to avoid this player,until i know i have a premium hand and have him beat,but it's more likely someone else will catch him first,there luck only lasts so long when they play to many pots and put there entire stack to the middle to often.

PktAcesSoWht · #7 03-25-2005, 03:22 PM

thanks, and I loved your post on Stack size.