State sponsored suicide bombings by children

[Chris Alger]

You mean the first link? The second link doesn't mention schools, much less state sponsorship of anything, and the third repeats the story in the first about the PIJ "camp."

[MMMMMM]

Are you trying to say merely that some racism exists in Israeli education, or are you suggesting it is as widespread and pervasive as it is in Palestinian education? I don't believe it is nearly as pervasive, so I'm trying to clarify here. I'm glad you brought it up but if there is a significant difference in degree or pervasiveness that is very significant too and should be mentioned.

[ACPlayer]

You should be careful in the use of the F and B phrase. Al Franken might sue you with the millions he made courtesy of the pompous, self serving, fat headed, blowhard - O'Reilly

.

[Chris Alger]

I have no idea "how" pervasive it is in either, or even how one would measure it, am quite sure you don't either. I can't imagine what difference it would make if we could. Was the issue in S. Africa or Northern Ireland ever "who hates whom the most for the least reason?" Even if you could answer it, what then? One group should get a worse bargain than the other? What if the slightly more hateful groups is slightly more convinced about the justification for its hatred, or more loudly or coherently says it is? It's pointless.

The point is that racist hatred isn't unique to either side and therefore probably isn't the only or even major underlying cause of the problems. Once you realize that, you move on to a serious discussion about why the hatred exists on both sides and how best to beat it or at least limit its harmful effects.

The pro-Zionist right, however, having pretty much won the real battle on the ground, hates this idea. It much prefers to remain mired in dead-end "my atrocity beats your atrocity" debates in order to prevent people from advancing beyond their prejudices. The practice of constantly insisting "I'm right, you're a communist" without more, instead of trying to clash with what's been said or engage in a going-forward dialogue, is one manifestation of this. It characterizes most of what's been said here recently by Israel defenders.

Your perception, given what you admittedly don't know, isn't worth much (nor is mine), as I can give you details compiled by Palestinian media watch people (compared with their counterparts at CAMERA if you like) that more than explain why you assume that the Palestinians are generally bad and the Israelis generally good (i.e., the greater frequency of anti-Arab calumny, the disproportionate coverage given to Palestinian violence compared to anti-Palestinian violence, etc.).

The problem is that the two groups have serious issues that one side refuses to address because the U.S. makes sure it doesn't have to. The U.S. does so only because so many people believe, like those on this forum, that Israelis have superior rights in the former Palestine, including a monopoly right on the use of violence, because the other side are, as others have put it here, "merely Arabs" and their children a bunch of "Arab snots." If we want to do something about prejudice beyond condemning it in others, then the task begins with healing ourselves.

[MMMMMM]

Racist attitudes or hatreds obviously exist to some degree in every large group on the face of the Earth. Therefore what matters is how pervasive the problem is, and how fanatical and destructive the racists are.

If only .0001% of today's American population is Neo-Nazi, well big whoop-de-doo. That's only 360 Neo-Nazi nuts in all of America, which isn't a number likely to cause calamitous problems. That number would just represent a fringe group, with little power or effect on the rest of society.

If however 10% of America's population today is Neo-Nazi,
that would be a very big deal and real cause for concern. 36 million racist militant fanatics could very well cause calamitous problems.

So if PA schools teach such hatreds, and support things such as suicide bombings, to a far greater extent and more widely than do their Israeli counterparts, it really does
matter a lot.

As I mentioned before, the report I read indicated that 10% of PA schools (or of PA schools in a certain region only, maybe Gaza, I honestly don't recall all the details) were glorifying suicide bomber martyrdom and inculcating the desire to emulate martyrdom in their young students. Well, when it comes to such fanatical and destructive things, 10% can really be a lot in terms of effect.

[brad]

http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID...2-051845-8272r

[Chris Alger]

You're forgetting that there's a ton of racism on either side. When racism becomes so tragic that the other side revels in the deaths or misery of another, it hardly matters if one side is 10% more or less "racist" than the other. This assumes that such things could be determined, and of course they can't for the reasons I mentioned above.

Your analogy is inapposite because it refers to one country only. No what if 50% of Americans liked to see Canadians die through violence and 60% of Canadians felt the same about America. Your prescription is that the only real problem lies with Canada, and that Canada must fix itself before serious attention can be drawn to the American attitude. It's stupid beyond belief.

"So if PA schools teach such hatreds, and support things such as suicide bombings...."

But since none of the usual Arab-haters in this thread have unearthed any evidence of the sort, you're "if" is so much pointless speculation. If you have a report, show it to us. I doubt very much that it exists, because if it did the Zionist propaganda mills would be referring to it every week.

[Boris]

I think the degree to which these views persist is the more relevant question. Bruce's statements are, almost without doubt, true. But they are true only becuase the burden of proof is so low. One need only find one instance in each case to make it true. Simply proving or accepting that each of his statements is true is of little significance.

As for degree, I believe there exists widespread anti-us views in the Arab ruling class. I am not so convinced about the prevalence of anti US attitudes among the plebes, the little people so to speak.

[MMMMMM]

Well consider the polls and interviews the news services did of"street sentiment" in Arab countries since 9/11. A very hefty percentage of Arabs think bin-Laden did a good thing. They like bin-Laden. In fact I think the percentage in Kuwait was over 50%. I don't have the figues nor did I store them, but these polls were fairly commonplace since 9/11 and they showed a widespread belief among Arabs that the US is bad, that the US deserved 9/11, that the US should be destroyed, that the jihad against the West is good, and that they like or love Osama. As I said, I don't have the figures offhand, and there were many polls in different countries. I remember in particular one interview with a Kuwaiti pharmacist who said if he didn't have his store to attend he would off and join the jihad. So these views are not rare in the Arab world. I'm not saying they are majority views, but they are not negligible and they do represent a hefty slice of the population.

[MMMMMM]

Well what do you make of the plays glorifying suicide bomber martyrdom, which children participate in in some schools? This was a report by a mainstream rather neutral organization as I recall. I'd call that supporting suicide bombing. I'm going to sleep but maybe I'll lokk for it tomorrow. Or maybe you could.

Also I'm not discounting racism in Israel. I just think it probably isn't as widespread nor is it as crazy and violent as the jihadist martydom fanatical brand of racism. Actually I believe you could accurately call the suicide bombing organizations "death-cults." They may have political reasons in part, sure, but they have by now surpassed mere resistance or politics and entered the realm of true cultism. They are cults, plain and simple, with all the attendant religious fanaticism and delusional outlooks.