8542ss hand (fun / brag post)

joewatch · #1 10-21-2005, 11:19 PM

Anybody play this differently? Probably everybody! Fold the flop, make a full pot check-raise on the turn, right? What if you were Villain? Would you have called the river?

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $1.00 BB (9 handed) converter

Hero ($100)
UTG ($62)
UTG+1 ($78.75)
MP1 ($28.50)
MP2 ($30.90)
MP3 ($51.80)
CO ($153.05)
Button ($50.30)
SB ($98)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, 2 folds, MP3 calls $1, CO calls $1, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: ($5.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $5.25, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls $5.25, UTG folds.

Turn: ($16) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $15.25, Hero raises to $30.5, UTG+1 calls $15.25.

River: ($77) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $40, after long dramatic pause, UTG+1 calls $40.

Final Pot: $157

Results in white below: 

Villain mucked [3c 9s 5d Kc]

The 4th nut flush!
Outcome: Hero wins $157.

hockeyf · #2 10-22-2005, 12:08 AM

When he bets the turn, you know he has the nutflush, and should push the pot, not miniraise him, you should double up on this hand.

PS. Dont wanna comment the flop call, nice catch.

joewatch · #3 10-22-2005, 04:15 AM

Don't you think somebody might minraise here with a Q high flush? Or semibluff a set with the board showing 3 cards to a str8 flush? I think that if Villain were check-raised full pot, he might lay it down (although I have yet to see someone lay down an A high flush. Ever.)

#4 10-23-2005, 04:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
(although I have yet to see someone lay down an A high flush. Ever.)

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you ever "see" someone lay down an A high flush unless it's you?

joewatch · #5 10-23-2005, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(although I have yet to see someone lay down an A high flush. Ever.)

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you ever "see" someone lay down an A high flush unless it's you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Either that person says "I layed down the A-high flush", or it is obvious from the betting pattern. (eg unraised pot, bet, raise, reraise, re-reraise, fold).

Orpheus · #6 10-24-2005, 08:31 AM

With all due respect: yes, you'd "see" the A-flush laydown if one of those things happened, but you said you've never seen them happen, so we're talking the realm of imagination here.

I've laid down an A-flush to an SF, haven't you? Sometimes a given villain re-raises a certain way, and you know you're beat. Would you then tell the table your read and that you are capable of laying down an A-flush?

Maybe there's a metagame reason to declare, but I consider that info too valuable. I don't want to encourage sharp players to represent straight flushes, trying to bluff me out of my nuts. Those decisions can be tough enough. I don't want more of them: I might start dismissing possible SFs more, and plausible representations of a SF tend to be delicate calls for potentially huge pots. At least for me

It's not always obvious from the betting, either. The last time I laid down an A-fl, I was acting after a big raise and re-raise, knew I was beat, and laid down quickly. Neither opponent knew I was laying down a suited ace, instead of a suited king or queen, or a missed flop.

I completely agree: it's rare that an A-flush is laid down, and that's money in your pocket when you have a SF -- but I think anyone who *can* lay it down probably won't advertise it, and a failed semibluff or K-fl (surely you've "seen" THOSE happen) can fold exactly the same way as an A-fl, unless the position and personalities line up in a way that makes it obvious -- and those situations are a fraction of your already rare SFs (Well, *I* don't get them nearly often enough. I dunno about you.)

How do I know I'm not folding too much? Easy: even most players who won't declare an A-fl fold will show a SF!

KJ o · #7 10-22-2005, 04:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When he bets the turn, you know he has the nutflush, and should push the pot, not miniraise him, you should double up on this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero won $76.5 of the $78.5 villain had. Good enough for me.

DRKEVDC · #8 10-23-2005, 10:16 AM

I would have bet the turn, there is now way that he puts you on the str. flush and most likely raises allowing you to come over the top of him.

How is this the 4th nut flush? Are you including straight flushes in this?

joewatch · #9 10-23-2005, 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would have bet the turn, there is now way that he puts you on the str. flush and most likely raises allowing you to come over the top of him.

How is this the 4th nut flush? Are you including straight flushes in this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, nut flush is the high str8 flush. I had the 3rd nut flush. (although in this case, I knew it was 2nd nut.)

mgsimpleton · #10 10-24-2005, 01:39 AM

since i enjoy being a nit, a flush is different than a straight flush. he had the nut flush.

and you had the 2nd nut straight flush. it is not the 3rd nuts when you have the 5c in your hand, it is the 2nd nuts. if the low straight flush is possible then the medium 5c9c is not and thus the low straight flush will always be the 2nd nut straight flush.

man that was fun.