Can someone explain 2/5 limit hold'em in Colorado for me???

[J.R.]

Seems to me small pairs are a 1 in 23 shot

Your odds to flop a set are about 7.5 to 1.

Calling just $2 pre-flop with the chance to bet $5 one each post-flop street means pocket pairs are profitable from just about wherever if the game is loose (limpers) and passive (only $2 to see the flop), which is typical of many 2-5 games.

[rharless]

<font color="brown"> "When you can get in for $2 and there are plenty of callers, chase the draws." </font color>

Yes, this is correct. You want at least 5-6 people in for only $2 to play your draws.

Because you can raise so much preflop (basically tripling the bet) and then bet so much on the flop, however, you want to play your big cards faster. Basically, give people opportunities to make mistakes with their drawing hands. I've only recently become so aware of how important this fact is, thanks to helpful posts by majorkong, Clarky, and JR. I used to just play with the basic preflop advice that was dispensed for structured games, and while that was successful for me, I have found that shifting gears this year based on their advice has been even better. I don't have enough of a sample size to draw a meaningful conclusion but it just "feels" like it's working.

<font color="brown"> Seems to me small pairs are a 1 in 23 shot </font color>

That would be correct odds if the flop was only one card [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]. Your odds of flopping a set are roughly the same as your odds of flopping a flush draw.

When you flop a set, you will win (much) more often than you lose.

When you flop a flush draw, you will lose more often than you win.

A hand from tonight, only slightly relevant but a good excuse for me to tell the story. I raise with QQ preflop, get two callers. I flop a set. Flush card hits the turn. River paired the board. Both of my opponents have the flush (T9s, 54s). One of the guys was a big ole baby about it: kept moaning "that was such a bad beat" etc.

The dealer said to him "yeah I really hate it when my 5-4 suited gets run down by pocket queens." [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[AmericanAirlines]

Doh!

Some days I should just stay in bed. That was a long day.

Sorry 'bout that 23:1 comment! 7.5:1 it is.

But still, I think "drawing" hands should only be started against lots of callers for $2. That way they play more like say a $2/$5 fixed limit game given that the laters streets always seem to be $5.

True, trips is a made hand... draws require that 5th card.

I think I did an analysis where a hand with only flush potential gets made only 1 in 27, and given the $2/$5 game it took about 9 callers to break even on the flush only potential. Of course most suited hands have more than flush value alone.

Anyways, trying to figure the adjustments to that game is an interesting challenge.

Any idea when the number of callers gets to be enough that a raise against drawers becomes correct for the drawers to continue to the flop?

I've been planning to sit down and try to determine two things:

1. How much do the odds go against me if I have a pocket pair... for each drawer I'm up against.

2. How many callers do I need to continue with a drawing hand given that I'm up against a pocket pair...AND... the other drawers.

Sincerely,
AA

P.S. As for your "Flush Baby Dude"... oh well, guess he didn't see that set coming at him... That's poker!

Let 'em whine... take the dough! (You know... "Yeah, I hate when that happens to me too! Could happen to anyone...")

:-)

[rharless]

"But still, I think "drawing" hands should only be started against lots of callers for $2."

Yes -- I don't think I ever said otherwise, and if I did then I take it back. I just meant that if you do the right job of table selection, you don't need to bother counting the number of preflop callers because there will always be enough of them.

I don't really know the answer to your other questions (partly because I don't really understand them, but if I did understand them I don't know I'd have answers [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]). My rule of thumb -- which could be way off -- is that I want to win $10 for every preflop dollar I put in the pot with any type of drawing hand (small pocket pair, flush draw). I have no idea if the 10:1 ratio is ideal but it's just what I have used for a long time.

[rkiray]

Hey AA,

I think you hit a key point here. I disagreed with some of the strategy suggestions posted earlier, but didn't want to say anything. The way I found to beat the 2/5 game (especailly if it was passive) was to call to with any hand that could flop big, pairs as stated earlier and suited connectors. Big unsuited cards weren't as important. Then if you didn't hit the flop get out immediately. The 5/5 is more variable and you need to adjust strategy more both for the texture of the game and the individual players, but in 2/5 I tend to play hands that could flop big as long as I can get in for $2 (although I am much more selective in early position).

[rharless]

"I disagreed with some of the strategy suggestions posted earlier, but didn't want to say anything"

You should say something if you disagree. I posted what is generally the "2+2 conventional wisdom" of the 2/5 game as I have learned it on here, but that doesn't mean it's not open to discussion/debate.

[orbie]

I should be going up tommorow arriving at 11am and staying until 2pm when I have to head back for work. I'm going up with a friend who will be sitting for his first session of casino play.

Thanks ORBIE

[rkiray]

I think that is a little early. But on a weekend you should probaly be able to get a game. On a weekday it might be tough. If I go up on a weekend I usually try to get there before 3 PM because at The Lodge the quite often fill all their tables around then and the wait can be very long. But at 11 AM I think your only question will if there are any tables going (I believe the Lodge opens their poker room at 10 AM).

[AliasMrJones]

I haven't played in Blackhawk yet, but I'm up for a 2+2 gettogether. If in a place with at least a few tables, it seems like we'd be able to spread out enough.