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Old 12-09-2005, 12:02 AM
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Default Starting hands

I am a beginner/low intermediate that is still trying to figure out what hands are good preflop. I've been using this site as a guide and it has helped me win quite a few low stake sng's in the limited time I've played :

http://www.toptexasholdem.com/texas-...artinghand.php

However, looking at this site I've seen a few posts where people recommend raising preflop in a full table with KTs or QTs, while this site says to call and if it's a raised pot, then fold. Just wondering if any of you experts care to critique this site's starting hand guide, it would be appreciated. I'm well aware it's just a guide and position/#players remaining/looseness have to be considered, just wondering if there are any differences in this guide and what starting hands you usually go in with in the early rounds of an sng.
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Old 12-09-2005, 12:35 AM
silkyslim silkyslim is offline
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Location: Illinois
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Default Re: Starting hands

you should probably make your home in the microlimit forum. pf is very dependent on so many variables that its really hard to critique a chart. i would recommend reading "small stakes hold them" by Ed Miller and using that hand chart. Also, a discussion of circumstantial preflop adjustments can be found in "Theory of Poker", "inside poker mind" and Hold them for advanced players" all available from this website.
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Old 12-09-2005, 03:49 AM
Harv72b Harv72b is offline
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Default Re: Starting hands

[ QUOTE ]
However, looking at this site I've seen a few posts where people recommend raising preflop in a full table with KTs or QTs, while this site says to call and if it's a raised pot, then fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's important to understand that starting hands charts are sort of like training wheels for poker. There's nothing wrong with using them while you learn how to play, and they'll generally help immensely in keeping you out of trouble as you do. But there will come a time in your poker development when you're capable of taking off the training wheels and not falling down.

That's what you're seeing when you see people here recommend raising KTs or another borderline holding behind one or several limpers. If you're a beginning player, you shouldn't be doing this. But as you develop and your postflop skill becomes greater, moves like this (which are often slightly +EV) need to be incorporated into your game. In particular, though, you need to be adept at reading your opponents' hand ranges on the fly and keeping tabs of the pot odds, and you need to have the discipline to throw your hand away when it is no longer +EV to continue. That last point in particular causes problems for many beginning players, who tend to stay in the pot too long after raising (or flopping a mediocre hand or draw) because they feel tied to the pot. Hell, it's still a problem for a lot of successful veteran players.

In addition, a lot of these moves you see on here are read-specific. Most times, you should fold KJo in a raised pot without a second thought, but against a particularly loose/aggressive opponent, this becomes a viable 3-betting hand (or even a capping hand if you believe that capping after the maniac 3-bets will cause the initial raiser to fold). Similarly, if you see a guy with an 80 VPIP limp from early position, and it's folded to you in the CO with KTo, that's usually a good spot to raise in--basically, since the limper is playing practically any 2 cards, you make your preflop decisions based on what you'd do if it had been folded to you on a normal table, in that position.

While you're still learning the game and working out the basic kinks in your postflop play, you're probably better off just sticking to a starting hand guide, like the one you linked to or the one found in SSH (use the "tight games" table there for online play). When you get to the point where you can profitably make these slightly +EV plays, for the most part they'll start to come naturally to you.
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