my first preflop question in a long time...

In a live game, I would literally call blind.
I don't do this often, but with those odds, I like to see the action before I decide.
On the flop, you can check, since there are very few hands you are going to bet into the field, and as action comes back to you with your relative position, you can decide what range of hands you will play and how.
It kind of a fun hand reading excercise for me.

If we are talking straight EV, I fold any offsuit 3 gapper T6 and lower and call with almost everything else for miracle flop value.

[shmahappens]

I think tommy posts for the ultimate meta-game considerations - He realizes that a lot of players here will take his advice, and therefore make the online games better by doing rediculous passive/tight things.

He then creates an account and steals from anyone who tries to play like he posts.

God bless you for making the online games better by confusing the hell out of 2+2ers.

[mike l.]

any offsuit highcard low card junk hand like J2o K6o etc should be mucked. any A should be played. K9o, Q8o, J7o are playable, but T6o and worse is a muck.

i like your avatar. was that a deleted scene from north by northwest?

[mike l.]

"J10"

dear tommy,

that is stupid.

love,
mike l.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm folding any hands that are more than 5-gappers! atleast with any 4-gapper or less, you've got some drawing possibilities. I don't fold Ax, either...or Kxs

[/ QUOTE ]

Or xxs!

[ QUOTE ]
Why J2o and the like? You are 49:1 to flop two pair which might not even be good. Seems pretty bad to call with hands like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might be wrong, but that doesn't sound right. Off the top of my head I think its more like 25:1.

[DcifrThs]

Of course everybody noticed the follwoing:

1) i didn't count right b/c 8 players in + my bb = 8*2+1=17:1 not 15:1.

2) same concept though. i should play any hand that has +EV assuming no reraise. so anythying with greater equity than 5.555555555555556% should be played.

So, to solve this, i wrote to Dr. Brian Alspach of Simon Fraser University in BC, Canada. He is a PhD. and loves writing about poker and from what i understand had a part in the development of the PokiBot. In any case, here is the email i sent to him:

[ QUOTE ]
Dear Dr. Alspach,

I wrote to you a number of years ago and you were actually responsible for my progression into poker. It was your page that I stumbled upon while looking up some probability from “Rounders.” I don’t know if you remember or not but we had a few email conversations back and forth when I was at the Dept of Labor (email: gatib@pwba.dol.gov or gatib@dol.gov if you want to search your emails if you still have them)

I have posted on 2p2 since then under DcifrThs and have made it a long long way, yet still have much further to go.

In any case, there is currently a thread I started where I was effectively getting 17:1 in the BB and asked what hands everybody would FOLD. I got some varied responses from “I never fold any hand getting 18:1” to “I fold QTo JTo etc..” meaning that he thought JTo would do worse than 5.555556% (1/18) effectively closing the action (I assumed no reraise)

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=14&fpart=

there is the thread.

I would love to know your thoughts on this situation.

Further, I am about to post a results post where Id like to say “the Probability of flopping two pair, a straight draw with one card or better (full hourse, quads etc.) is X% with J2o and Y% with 32o”

I didn’t see anything like that in your poker digest essays that I reread occasionally and use most frequently w.r.t. overcards flopping to a hole pair.

How would you go about setting this up?(This= the above thread, not the overcards to a pair) I also think that the solution to this question would make a great addition to your already excellent poker digest articles.

Thanks a lot.

Regards
Barron


[/ QUOTE ]

with hope, he will respond to either me, or this thread.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

i dont know but i paid $100 for it [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

glad you like it.

search OOT for my thread where i said something liek "$200 for each of two videos" or thereabouts. to the person who gave me the video i gave $100.

-Barron

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why J2o and the like? You are 49:1 to flop two pair which might not even be good. Seems pretty bad to call with hands like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might be wrong, but that doesn't sound right. Off the top of my head I think its more like 25:1.

[/ QUOTE ]

From Petriv's book, flopping exactly two pair is 49:1. Flopping two pair, trips, a full house, or quads is about 29:1.

[sthief09]

the ok thing about hands like J2o is bottom pair with an overcard kicker is a pretty decent draw, and you have a pretty good kicker for trips. I don't see much of a difference between J2o and J5o. since stella is loose and bad he doesn't have to have much of a hand.

the hands I'd fold are any 4+ gap T or lower. so T5, T4, T3, T2, 94, 93, 92, 83, 82, 72. my gut says J6-J2 is probably pretty close, and Q2o a little better than marginal.