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  #1  
Old 12-29-2005, 09:19 PM
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Default Lying about your hand

This is kind of a response to Inignok's last post on the 'QQ facing action' thread. But I thought I'd make a new post because it really is a new thought, and I'm afraid it might just die over there [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
As a general rule, I never believe anything anyone says about their hands at the poker table unless they show their hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder if you can put a percentage on this? I lie about my hand maybe 10-15% of the time--when I think it might have a huge benefit--now or metagame ("gf"). I think *most* people, barring psychotics and compulsive liars, don't really like to lie. We don't do it in our daily lives, and it hurts us a little to lie, even at a poker table. Also most people are proud of their good hand or good bluff, and while we may not show our cards, it's a whole level further to actively lie about the brilliant play we just pulled off or great cards we had.

Bluffing is another story. You acclimate to that pretty quick in poker. Although I'll get into a really soft, friendly, family-ish home game and feel guilty about bluffing or playing too aggressive. That is until my aunt pushes me out of a huge pot with air [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

I would also say that I think it's tougher to lie at a B&M table, but more advantageous if you can pull it off. Of course if B&M beer is involved that goes out the window.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2005, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: Lying about your hand

I personally avoid talking about my cards full stop. I tell people that if they want to know what i had then they should have paid me to see them, i say it in a jovial manner but i am serious about it.
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  #3  
Old 12-29-2005, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: Lying about your hand

Yeah, I'm like that about 98% of the time. But I figure late in SNGs or MTTs, you're really going to want folds a lot more ofthen than you want calls. No point going out of your way to induce calling.
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  #4  
Old 12-29-2005, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Lying about your hand

I don't think lying about what cards you had when you try and steal is going to change anyones calling patterns unless you actually show them trash cards after you steal from them.

Giving people any information at all is bad - make them pay for information.
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2005, 10:36 PM
curtains curtains is offline
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Default Re: Lying about your hand


A lot of people tell the truth. I do sometimes, but usually I lie [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2005, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: Lying about your hand

But what about when you really really don't want them to pay?

IE - Kh Qh Qd 6h board, level 4, 5 players left, preflop could easily put me on a Q or flush. I make a mutually-pot-comitting but not all-in raise against a guy I see as a weak-tighty. He thinks forever, finally folds, and says "AK" (we're talking at least $60s and up here).

Now I had bupkis. I just thought he had something marginal, and am truly suprised he laid down TPTK. In his mind, he made either a great fold or really dumb fold. He's very curious, otherwise he wouldn't have told me what he had. If I don't reply he's probably going to lean towards thinking he's been bamboozled. Do I want to make weak-tighty feel good about himself, or do I want him gunning for me throughout the bubble and HU, spite-calling me on all my BS. Seriously?

So I may reply, depending on the player, with "gf" or "wow, gf" etc. He gets to feel like he made a world-class laydown, and I continue to bully and steal my way to winning the tourney. It's a win/win.

Granted we might both be lying to each other. But going by the 80/20 (or whatever) rule, we'll probably each assume the other one is on the up and up. In his case it makes him feel a lot better to assume I'm telling the truth. In my case I really don't care whether he's telling the truth.
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2005, 10:39 PM
durron597 durron597 is offline
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Default Re: Lying about your hand

I say whatever hand I was representing. But I'm usually trying to represent some hand other than what I have [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2005, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Lying about your hand

[ QUOTE ]
But what about when you really really don't want them to pay?

IE - Kh Qh Qd 6h board, level 4, 5 players left, preflop could easily put me on a Q or flush. I make a mutually-pot-comitting but not all-in raise against a guy I see as a weak-tighty. He thinks forever, finally folds, and says "AK" (we're talking at least $60s and up here).

Now I had bupkis. I just thought he had something marginal, and am truly suprised he laid down TPTK. In his mind, he made either a great fold or really dumb fold. He's very curious, otherwise he wouldn't have told me what he had. If I don't reply he's probably going to lean towards thinking he's been bamboozled. Do I want to make weak-tighty feel good about himself, or do I want him gunning for me throughout the bubble and HU, spite-calling me on all my BS. Seriously?

So I may reply, depending on the player, with "gf" or "wow, gf" etc. He gets to feel like he made a world-class laydown, and I continue to bully and steal my way to winning the tourney. It's a win/win.

Granted we might both be lying to each other. But going by the 80/20 (or whatever) rule, we'll probably each assume the other one is on the up and up. In his case it makes him feel a lot better to assume I'm telling the truth. In my case I really don't care whether he's telling the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

My comments about telling people to pay to see my cards are more relevant in live games.

I just wouldn't bother talking about them online because you won't get any credit for it anyway, even if you were telling the truth i think when you start talking about your cards people are more likely to look you up.
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2005, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Lying about your hand

Maybe what I said sounds a little cynical. What I meant was, I am not going to believe them unless I have good reason to. In a friendly game, like the game I played at Caeser's last night, I might actually believe half the players if they told me. Nice guys that they were, loved just showing their cards. If a tight/solid player shows me his cards, I have to assume there is a underlying reason behind it. If weak/passive players show me, and I am pretty sure they are just showing me because they're cool like that.

I actually rarely lie about my hand when I tell someone. Often I just don't say anything, but if a guy next to me who I've been chatting with for a few hours asks, I most likely will tell him what I had. Between me and the 2 guys next to me, we would often tell each other our hands, and talk about it after the hand. We weren't playing together, but we weren't exactly playing against each other either.
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2005, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Lying about your hand

This reminds me of a hand I played last night. I have K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] . Not much action on the flop, I might have called a small bet. Turn is check around. River is a blank. It's checked to me, I bet the pot, Michigan state hat guys calls me, and says "I just have to see what you have." I'm thinking, [censored], caught on a steal. He flips over Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for Queen high. I turn over King high and take down the pot.
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