Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > General Poker Discussion > Brick and Mortar

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:55 AM
juanez juanez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Land of Oz
Posts: 41
Default Face up muck?

Saw this tonight:

It's heads up when the river comes, bringing the fourth spade and a possible broadway. Player A bets out, as he did on every street. Player B is thinking when Player A says "Your kings are no good - got a set, huh?" Player B 3-bet preflop, raised after a King came on the flop, and raised the turn.

Player B looks disgusted and slams down his pocket kings FACE UP showing that he indeed had the set. After maybe 3 or 4 seconds, he quickly reached for chips and says "call". It turns out that Player B also hit a king high flush on the river. Player A had broadway on the turn.

Player A freaks, claiming that Player B "mucked" because he tabled his cards before calling his bet. The guy really did slam down his cards in typical giant douche fashion, messing up the board.

It looked to me like Player B conceeded the pot thinking he only had 3 kings, but then realized he hit a flush so he quickly grabbed chips to call the bet.

Floor rules that the flush is good and Player B gets the pot.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-25-2005, 04:07 AM
Photoc Photoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sin City
Posts: 283
Default Re: Face up muck?

If the dealer didn't grab them and muck them like he/she is supposed to, then the hand is live HEADS UP. When it's heads up, most rooms allow you to show your cards in CASH games only.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-25-2005, 04:29 AM
juanez juanez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Land of Oz
Posts: 41
Default Re: Face up muck?

Yeah, it was a cash game and the floor made the right call. The guy who slammed his cards down was such an ahhhole. I secretly wished he had mucked face down or the dealer had immediately swept his cards into the muck. But hey, the best hand won in the end. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:40 PM
Al_Capone_Junior Al_Capone_Junior is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 3,026
Default Re: Face up muck?

The bottom line is that you didn't say anything to indicate that the hand was clearly dead. Despite any lack of good ettiquette, or any abundance of bungholio-esque behavior, if a hand is live, then it lives.

al
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-25-2005, 04:01 PM
bernie bernie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: seattle!!!__ too sunny to be in a cardroom....ahhh, one more hand
Posts: 3,752
Default Re: Face up muck?

Player A is an idiot. Player B didn't muck, he tabled it. Even Player A says he 'tabled' it.

His hand isn't dead because he exposed it as this isn't a tourney. The hand also wasn't killed by the dealer. Given that it was 3-4 seconds and the dealer didn't retrieve his cards, the dealer, imo, knows he hasn't released his hand yet to be mucked.

b
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-25-2005, 04:02 PM
bernie bernie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: seattle!!!__ too sunny to be in a cardroom....ahhh, one more hand
Posts: 3,752
Default Re: Face up muck?

[ QUOTE ]
The guy who slammed his cards down was such an ahhhole.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know...Player A isn't exactly stellar either.

b
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-25-2005, 04:31 PM
jba jba is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 672
Default Re: Face up muck?

" bungholio-esque"

BIMO
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-25-2005, 04:49 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Face up muck?

The fact that Player A tried to win "like that" shows what kind of weasel we are dealing with. I don't know how much was in the pot, but that was lame.

Player B was an a$$hole, but he was one with a flush!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-25-2005, 09:55 PM
TomBrooks TomBrooks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: .5/1 Full Hand
Posts: 671
Default Re: Face up muck?

The cards speak.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-25-2005, 10:31 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,179
Default Re: Face up muck?

Here Player B's hand is live under most cash game rulebooks. It appears he didn't release his hand - even Player A stated that he merely tabled his hand.

BUT.....

.......this sort of thing can evolve beyond gamesmenship into really unseemly angleshooting that IMHO isn't good for the growth of the game.

Example: Novice Player A bets, Player B turns his hand face up with just a little bit of forward motion. "Little bit" is a judgement call, perhaps a matter of opinion, the real story depends on what people saw and so on. Novice Player A in good faith believed Player B is folding - perhaps he tosses his hand away, maybe breathes a sigh of relief because he was bluffing, shows his hand thinking it was uncalled and he has a winner. If you play no limit you see this sort of thing quite often.

Now Player B calls. We have a dispute and someone (perhaps the whole table) is not going to be happy.

Why is allowing this good for the game?

OR....

..... would a rule saying, "when facing a bet either turning your hand face up or pushing it torward the muck will (may?) result in a dead hand" be better?

~ Rick
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.